In each of my CSM and CSPO classes someone asks “Should I still get PMP?”
In this podcast I got the chance to check in with Jesse Fewell on the value of certification. Jesse and I have been friends since 2008 when we both started working on trying to find ways to get PMI to pay attention to Agile. We both come from a traditional background, have been heavily involved with PMI and now make a living teaching Scrum certification classes.
Jesse and I debate the answer to the PMP certification question and along the way, discuss our differing views on the value of PMI-ACP, CSM and CSPO certifications. These are things we don’t always see eye to eye on, so regardless of your viewpoint, there is sure to be something in here to help you see things from a different perspective.
We also have a brief conversation about what do to about PMO’s in Agile organizations.
Note: You may hear some odd background noise. This time it isn't me slurping coffee … #blamethefidgittoys
00:08 Podcast Starts
00:34 An update on Jesse’s recent and upcoming Agile PMO sessions, VirtuallyAgile.com and his Certified Agile Leadership Training classes
07:53 Does PMP Certification still matter? And if you are working in Agile, do you still need it?
09:57 If you are a traditional PM, are you in danger of becoming unemployable if you do not have agile?
11:50 Can a traditional PM avoid the trap of thinking they “get” Agile before they actually do?
14:26 Jesse’s involvement with PMI-ACP, it’s evolution and current relevance
16:20 What can you expect of someone who has PMP or PMI-ACP Certification?
18:10 PMI and Agile Alliance collaboration and what we can expect to see from it
20:10 PMI is working with the Agile Alliance… “It’s like the X-Men and the Justice League tried to plan something together”
21:10 “Everyone has the same mission - improve outcomes and people doing their job well”
21:43 It’s not a “standard”, it’s a “guide”
22:07 How much Agile will be in the new (6th) edition of the PMBOK?
23:00 For the skeptics… there is good on both sides of PMI and the Agile Alliance working together
24:30 Understanding the distinction between the work done by PMI and the Agile Alliance (stabilize and align vs. disrupt)
26:42 Will there be a new Agile certification coming from PMI?
29:26 If you know a PMP trying to decide between taking a CSM or a PMI-ACP course and they need advice on what to take
32:42 Dave and Jesse debate whether getting PMP is still valuable for a CSM or CSPO
36:17 “Most Agile people are punching above their weight…”
39:18 What do we do about the PMO if our organization is adopting Agile?
44:22 Want more Jesse? Here is how to get it….
45:02 Interview Ends
Links Referenced in the Podcast
The Hybrid PMO (part of Seminars World) http://bit.ly/2tbOvM5
Solving the PMO Paradox (at Agile 2017) http://bit.ly/2sJ8wJj
Certifications and Agile Organizations Mentioned in the Podcast
PMP Certification http://bit.ly/29NtawC
PMI-ACP Certification https://www.pmi.org/certifications/types/agile-acp
CSM Certification http://bit.ly/ZtotC1
CSPO Certification http://bit.ly/1HeXnC5
Certified Agile Leadership Certification https://www.scrumalliance.org/agile-leadership
Agile Alliance: https://www.agilealliance.org
Scrum Alliance: https://www.scrumalliance.org
IC Agile: https://icagile.com
A few weeks ago Don Kim put up a blog post challenging the value of certifications. I reached out to Don in hopes of doing an interview about it and found out he’s also written a new book “I think Therefore I Plan”. In this interview we discuss the pros and cons of different certifications, taking an artisan approach to managing projects as well as Don’s new book.
You can find Don’s book here: http://amzn.to/2n7VEHu
You can find Don’s blog post about certifications here: http://bit.ly/2okDUZA
00:07 Interview Start
00:30 What is a Human APEE
03:38 What is an Artisan approach to Project Management
05:15 Don’s Philosophy of Project Management
07:22 Trying to slow down and do less
08:21 Don explains his way of approaching project work and the reason for the book
10:56 How has the traditional vs. Agile debate changed over the past few years
12:53 Seeing the value in every project you work on - regardless of how you got it
16:15 The downside of certifications
17:29 The positive aspects of certifications
18:03 There is more to project management training than just PMP certification
19:48 Making the case for the value certifications can provide and how it can be misunderstood
23:22 Does it make sense for people to want to have a way of gauging their professional achievement?
23:55 What Don expected from PMP certification and how he went deep with the Kerzner to get the most learning out of it (instead of just passing the test)
26:41 Is it the certification that is an issue, or the way people interpret it as an end point rather than a beginning
27:50 An overview of the approach Don’s book takes towards the art of Project Management
30:56 Where you can find Don’s book and how you can reach him with follow up questions
31:54 Podcast Ends