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Topics: Career Development, Change Management, Consulting
Pay for PM in today's NYC market
Network:0
Hi all,

I have about 13 years direct PM/PMP experience in finance / banking. I have spent most of that time in strategic change areas focused on accounting, banking regulatory projects, tax compliance and other technology decoms/realignments. I was recently let go from my IB after 6 years but started my search at end of March when I knew time was winding down. When I consulted back in 2012, I was making $875/day C2C for Senior BA/PM work. My IB hired me FT at good salary so have an established value. My issue is with today's market. Everything coming at me is W2 at $70-$75/hr. There are no benefits and kind of arrogant "take it or leave it" tone from recruiters/hiring managers. Salaries have been $115-$125K. That is like a decade ago from my experience.With mortgage and two kids, this just not doable for NYC commute/existence. Even when I show that I am a good match for role, they won't negotiate even a dollar more. Anyone seeing different? This is over 4 months so pretty clear something is up (or down really). Am I missing something?
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Network:13526



It's called globalization Wes. But having said that, I wouldn't fuss over dollar rates. Get into the role first that suits you perfectly, then as you build value in the organization and role, you can request rate rises accordingly.
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1 reply by Wes Walker
Jul 09, 2018 6:58 PM
Wes Walker
...
Thanks Sante but actually I am concerned about dollar rates because I have to be able to pay bills, buy health insurance and focus on retirement. I understand globalization and have been part of many outsourced models. This seems extreme in terms of pay decline over only a few years. I was thinking 10% and suck it up but 30% is a non-starter discussion especially as everything else has risen in NY over last 10 years. Just trying to gauge what others are seeing. If this is how the game is played now then I shall play it. I will be professional but let's see them scramble when I tell them I am leaving two weeks before a major release.
Network:0
Jul 09, 2018 6:29 PM
Replying to Sante Vergini
...
It's called globalization Wes. But having said that, I wouldn't fuss over dollar rates. Get into the role first that suits you perfectly, then as you build value in the organization and role, you can request rate rises accordingly.
Thanks Sante but actually I am concerned about dollar rates because I have to be able to pay bills, buy health insurance and focus on retirement. I understand globalization and have been part of many outsourced models. This seems extreme in terms of pay decline over only a few years. I was thinking 10% and suck it up but 30% is a non-starter discussion especially as everything else has risen in NY over last 10 years. Just trying to gauge what others are seeing. If this is how the game is played now then I shall play it. I will be professional but let's see them scramble when I tell them I am leaving two weeks before a major release.
...
1 reply by Sante Vergini
Jul 10, 2018 8:48 PM
Sante Vergini
...
Is an overseas contract an option? Qatar are paying crazy rates. I was looking at roles around the $17-20K per month range (tax free), and that includes one month off a year with free return ticket back back home.
Network:1945



It's tough, Wes. While salaries may not meet your expectations, a job and income certainly beats none in either camp. But, yes, times have changed. My wife and I have had this discussion.

Look for the package deal with a good enough salary with good benefits. At least this will provide some stability while you continue to keep options open.

When you say 'they won't negotiate', who is they? Initial phone screen? It may be easier to negotiate once you get an offer. Gives you a bit more leverage. Also, may work with a career coach. They can be extremely helpful in this area. You are not alone.
Network:0
Andrew,

I appreciate your reply. It is definitely a grapple mentally at this point. Yes, I am talking about recruiters as well as hiring managers. Unfortunately, salary is the question after your background and qualifications. I have Right Management outplacement coaching available from my former employer and talked with them a little. They said to answer "market rate" and do anything tactically to not answer the question first. Unfortunately it really does not work. The recruiting people have a number and that is all. I have yet to negotiate up with any of them in 4 months. They state a low number and I say no or I quote a higher number and they say no. Yes it is tough. Not like any market is my 20+ years.
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1 reply by Andrew Craig
Jul 10, 2018 1:32 PM
Andrew Craig
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The advice given to me was for the initial screen when asked about salary, provide a large range, say 100-130, based on what you find comparable on salary[dot]com. That way, you are not too low or too high. When asked why the range is so large or if you can be more specific, be transparent and honest, simply respond that as you learn more about the job, expectations, benefits, travel, etc., you will have more information to better refine your salary expectations.

It's a chess game.
Network:500



The problem is everyone wants to live in the NYC area, so it attracts a lot of talented competition who drive down salaries. Combined with NYC's ridiculously high cost of living, maintaining a good quality of life is very difficult, especially for parents.
If you want to continue living in the NYC area you'll need to attain so many skills and experience that you can command the salary you want. Your other option, of course, is to move to a different geographic region.
Network:0
Eric,

Not disagreeing with you but NYC has been like that for 30 years since it was cleaned up. I think what has changed recently is too many people chasing too few jobs. It is the influx of H1B everyday into the area too. I don't think it is fair that an overwhelming % can flow to one part of country. H1B was supposed to help each state with engineering/tech so they should cap where H1B can work/live. I also think there is sort of some disrespect going on with PM skill set. I see jobs everyday stating "Sr. PM" looking for 5-7 years of work experience (not PM experience). How can you be senior level at 5 years? You don't walk out of college and get handed a global, cross-functional project. That is about not wanting to pay. I agree about tool set. You really need to master Agile, Lean, SDLC etc. methodologies to have a shot. Employers want it all. I will provide recent example from yesterday. Here are "some" job requirements for Change Manager role at NYC bank. I see PM/BA/Regulatory SME/UAT Manager wrapped into one. The recruiter then stated it was $65/hr. as they only wanted change background and the other requirements were only "components of the job". Seriously, c'mon.

Release management for reporting (UAT testing, regression testing, test script and BRD technical writing)
Helping enhance QA currently in place or assist in creation where none exists
Provide Regulatory Reporting Risk subject matter expertise for Technology & Operations areas
Develop and maintain relationships with Operations, Technology, Audit, Compliance and other control groups
Global Banking and Markets process / business knowledge / Equity Securities
Banking / Markets experience in Operations, Compliance, Audit, Risk or Technology
Experience managing projects / initiatives
Experience with application migrations (QA, functionality testing, identifying / prioritizing enhancements)
Experience analyzing and documenting business processes and developing solutions
Experience in regulatory reporting processes
Skilled in developing and executing user acceptance test scripts and defect management
Network:1945



Jul 09, 2018 7:38 PM
Replying to Wes Walker
...
Andrew,

I appreciate your reply. It is definitely a grapple mentally at this point. Yes, I am talking about recruiters as well as hiring managers. Unfortunately, salary is the question after your background and qualifications. I have Right Management outplacement coaching available from my former employer and talked with them a little. They said to answer "market rate" and do anything tactically to not answer the question first. Unfortunately it really does not work. The recruiting people have a number and that is all. I have yet to negotiate up with any of them in 4 months. They state a low number and I say no or I quote a higher number and they say no. Yes it is tough. Not like any market is my 20+ years.
The advice given to me was for the initial screen when asked about salary, provide a large range, say 100-130, based on what you find comparable on salary[dot]com. That way, you are not too low or too high. When asked why the range is so large or if you can be more specific, be transparent and honest, simply respond that as you learn more about the job, expectations, benefits, travel, etc., you will have more information to better refine your salary expectations.

It's a chess game.
Network:13526



Jul 09, 2018 6:58 PM
Replying to Wes Walker
...
Thanks Sante but actually I am concerned about dollar rates because I have to be able to pay bills, buy health insurance and focus on retirement. I understand globalization and have been part of many outsourced models. This seems extreme in terms of pay decline over only a few years. I was thinking 10% and suck it up but 30% is a non-starter discussion especially as everything else has risen in NY over last 10 years. Just trying to gauge what others are seeing. If this is how the game is played now then I shall play it. I will be professional but let's see them scramble when I tell them I am leaving two weeks before a major release.
Is an overseas contract an option? Qatar are paying crazy rates. I was looking at roles around the $17-20K per month range (tax free), and that includes one month off a year with free return ticket back back home.

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