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Topics: Agile, Organizational Project Management, Scrum
Should the Scrum Master role be used in other frameworks than Scrum?
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Project Manager role is always associated with a project. The popular new kid on the block called Scrum Master is now present in other (Agile) frameworks and even in Scrum "Projects"
What is you opinion?
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Scrum project management is a methodology for managing software delivery that comes under the broader umbrella of agile project management. It provides a lightweight process framework that embraces iterative and incremental practices, helping organizations deliver working software more frequently.
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1 reply by Stelian ROMAN
Apr 03, 2019 11:00 PM
Stelian ROMAN
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Hi Reza. Thank you for responding to my question. We are in a bit of disagreement.
1) Scrum is not a Project management framework. It was defined as a product development framework and although it can be used within a project management methodology like PMBok and PRINCE2, in itself it is not a project management framework. A project is defined by scope, time and busget. Scrum has no process to manage budgets and a very simplistic approach to delivery time-frame.
2) Scrum is no longer software oriented. It can be sued in many other domains.
3) Any framework can be used to deliver working software frequently. Incremental and iterative delivery it is used since 1950s. Scrum doesn't bring anything new in that area.
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Stelian -

Why call a role "Scrum Master" if you are not following Scrum? That will create some expectations of ceremonies, artifacts and other roles which won't be applicable.

I'd prefer to go with either XP's "coach" or DAD's "Agile Lead", if you are referring to the role responsible for helping a team become more agile with their delivery practices.

Kiron
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1 reply by Stelian ROMAN
Apr 03, 2019 11:14 PM
Stelian ROMAN
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@Kiron. I fully agree. It is not an Agile value to ride on the success of a concept or framework if you want to do something else. The Scrum Master has only one responsibility: to implement Scrum. It shouldn't manage budgets and provide weekly reports like i've seen in some organisations. That's PM role and you don't need Scrum for it.
The topic is probably broader, with a lot of concepts associated with Agile/Scrum that originated somewhere else and are presented as new. Things like kanban, kaizen, user stories, story points, incremental and iterative etc.
The Agile Manifesto stated that "we are uncovering better ways", and my assumption is uncovering means new ways.
I also agree on the terminology, coach seems more appropriate, although I don't mind to use the Change Manager when it comes to enterprise level Agile Transformations.
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Apr 03, 2019 3:12 AM
Replying to reza mokarramaydenlou
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Scrum project management is a methodology for managing software delivery that comes under the broader umbrella of agile project management. It provides a lightweight process framework that embraces iterative and incremental practices, helping organizations deliver working software more frequently.
Hi Reza. Thank you for responding to my question. We are in a bit of disagreement.
1) Scrum is not a Project management framework. It was defined as a product development framework and although it can be used within a project management methodology like PMBok and PRINCE2, in itself it is not a project management framework. A project is defined by scope, time and busget. Scrum has no process to manage budgets and a very simplistic approach to delivery time-frame.
2) Scrum is no longer software oriented. It can be sued in many other domains.
3) Any framework can be used to deliver working software frequently. Incremental and iterative delivery it is used since 1950s. Scrum doesn't bring anything new in that area.
Network:929



Apr 03, 2019 8:02 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
...
Stelian -

Why call a role "Scrum Master" if you are not following Scrum? That will create some expectations of ceremonies, artifacts and other roles which won't be applicable.

I'd prefer to go with either XP's "coach" or DAD's "Agile Lead", if you are referring to the role responsible for helping a team become more agile with their delivery practices.

Kiron
@Kiron. I fully agree. It is not an Agile value to ride on the success of a concept or framework if you want to do something else. The Scrum Master has only one responsibility: to implement Scrum. It shouldn't manage budgets and provide weekly reports like i've seen in some organisations. That's PM role and you don't need Scrum for it.
The topic is probably broader, with a lot of concepts associated with Agile/Scrum that originated somewhere else and are presented as new. Things like kanban, kaizen, user stories, story points, incremental and iterative etc.
The Agile Manifesto stated that "we are uncovering better ways", and my assumption is uncovering means new ways.
I also agree on the terminology, coach seems more appropriate, although I don't mind to use the Change Manager when it comes to enterprise level Agile Transformations.
Network:983



For me, it is about the function and my philosophy is to use whatever works without worrying about what it is called. So if there are scrum principles that could help in a particular situation and an individual is needed to manage that then yes, the scrum master role can be applied anywhere even if there is no scrum in sight. Or that role can even be performed by an existing one, much like a teacher performs the role of educator but also a facilitator. I believe this is true for any role i.e. the much-asked question about missing BA role in Agile.
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2 replies by Stelian ROMAN
Apr 04, 2019 6:24 PM
Stelian ROMAN
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Hi Anton. Thank you for your response. I agree with you that as a project manager we have to do whatever we can to deliver the project. However, the question is about the use of the term/role Scrum Master in other frameworks.
I disagree that the Scrum Master role can exist without the Scrum Framework. Of course that you can label a Project Manager (The role that manages scope, budget and time in a project) Scrum Master but I doubt that that's even moral. Have a look at the end of the Scrum Guide and you will see why I believe that "Scrum’s roles, events, artifacts, and rules are immutable and although implementing only parts of Scrum is possible, the result is not Scrum. Scrum exists only in its entirety and functions well as a container for other techniques, methodologies, and practices."
Apr 04, 2019 6:28 PM
Stelian ROMAN
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Hi Anton. Regarding the BA role in Agile. My view is that any framework can be Agile, by that I mean following the Agile goals of embracing change in an efficient way, therefore there is nothing preventing a planned framework to be Agile. There is a PM framework mongrel called Agile project management that has the BA role in it.
However, from the Agile Manifesto point of view, the BA role is obsolete because the Developers (not coders) should work direct with the end users, How realistic is that, it is another story.
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I would be very wary about accepting a scrum master position in an organization that wasn't committed to using the scrum framework.

It would be similar to a COBOL programmer taking a job at a company that didn't use COBOL.
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1 reply by Stelian ROMAN
Apr 04, 2019 6:35 PM
Stelian ROMAN
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Hi Wade, I agree with the first comment but the example is debatable :). I worked for a company that was looking for COBOL developers to convert them to another language called CA:GEN. There is also the possibility of using the non-technical wealth of knowledge that a COBOL developer usually has.I started my career on the parallel world of FORTRAN but I worked with many COBOL developers and I also know pretty well that COBOL and FORTRAN modules are still in use. The amount of knowledge that a COBOL developer that built a banking system from scratch is an asset for any banking IT team.
Network:929



Apr 04, 2019 4:08 AM
Replying to Anton Oosthuizen
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For me, it is about the function and my philosophy is to use whatever works without worrying about what it is called. So if there are scrum principles that could help in a particular situation and an individual is needed to manage that then yes, the scrum master role can be applied anywhere even if there is no scrum in sight. Or that role can even be performed by an existing one, much like a teacher performs the role of educator but also a facilitator. I believe this is true for any role i.e. the much-asked question about missing BA role in Agile.
Hi Anton. Thank you for your response. I agree with you that as a project manager we have to do whatever we can to deliver the project. However, the question is about the use of the term/role Scrum Master in other frameworks.
I disagree that the Scrum Master role can exist without the Scrum Framework. Of course that you can label a Project Manager (The role that manages scope, budget and time in a project) Scrum Master but I doubt that that's even moral. Have a look at the end of the Scrum Guide and you will see why I believe that "Scrum’s roles, events, artifacts, and rules are immutable and although implementing only parts of Scrum is possible, the result is not Scrum. Scrum exists only in its entirety and functions well as a container for other techniques, methodologies, and practices."
Network:929



Apr 04, 2019 4:08 AM
Replying to Anton Oosthuizen
...
For me, it is about the function and my philosophy is to use whatever works without worrying about what it is called. So if there are scrum principles that could help in a particular situation and an individual is needed to manage that then yes, the scrum master role can be applied anywhere even if there is no scrum in sight. Or that role can even be performed by an existing one, much like a teacher performs the role of educator but also a facilitator. I believe this is true for any role i.e. the much-asked question about missing BA role in Agile.
Hi Anton. Regarding the BA role in Agile. My view is that any framework can be Agile, by that I mean following the Agile goals of embracing change in an efficient way, therefore there is nothing preventing a planned framework to be Agile. There is a PM framework mongrel called Agile project management that has the BA role in it.
However, from the Agile Manifesto point of view, the BA role is obsolete because the Developers (not coders) should work direct with the end users, How realistic is that, it is another story.
Network:929



The Scrum Master is a facilitator but not in the sense of Project Coordinator or Business Analyst, otherwise why do you need a new framework? The Scrum Master is defined as a managerial role, the famous "Servant Leader", concept defined in 70's and usually totally misunderstood by Scrum teams.
Network:929



Apr 04, 2019 1:18 PM
Replying to Wade Harshman
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I would be very wary about accepting a scrum master position in an organization that wasn't committed to using the scrum framework.

It would be similar to a COBOL programmer taking a job at a company that didn't use COBOL.
Hi Wade, I agree with the first comment but the example is debatable :). I worked for a company that was looking for COBOL developers to convert them to another language called CA:GEN. There is also the possibility of using the non-technical wealth of knowledge that a COBOL developer usually has.I started my career on the parallel world of FORTRAN but I worked with many COBOL developers and I also know pretty well that COBOL and FORTRAN modules are still in use. The amount of knowledge that a COBOL developer that built a banking system from scratch is an asset for any banking IT team.
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