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Topics: Procurement Management
Seller Proposals: Input, Output or Both
PMBOK 6 under conduct procurement shows “Seller proposals” as an input ONLY.

An OUTPUT from one perspective
Procurement Doc = Advertising + Bidder Conference = Seller Proposal

An INPUT from another perspective
Seller proposal + Source selection criteria = Proposal Analysis = Selected seller

Any special reason why it’s shown as only an input in PMBOK 6 Conduct Procurement?
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To state it differently below are the five tools and techniques listed in PMBOK.

Question is after using tool #2 and #3 “ONLY” what is the main output you will obtain after?

1• Expert judgment

2• Advertising

3• Bidder conferences

4• Data analysis
• Proposal evaluation

5• Interpersonal and team skills • Negotiation
Jan 30, 2020 9:25 AM
Replying to Richard Darko
...
Thanks Sergio.

According to PMBOK the bid documents are an output of plan procurement though. Not conduct procurement.

The sellers response is same as the sellers proposal. And this is what you get AFTER you issuing out your RFP or RFQs

Since it’s coming after at this point based on the general definition of output (the sellers proposal) is also an output although PMBOK doesn’t also capture its dual nature.
I know. What I tried to say is this: the point here is the moment when you distribute the information to the sellers. PMBOK said nothing about that. So, that´s the reason you see "seller proposals" as an input. When "conduct proposals" the sellers have sent the information to you.
Richard,

you wrote yourself
'I will need proposals from invited vendors. That’s an output at one point in the conduct procurement'
which highlights that the invited vendors produce that output (proposal) in their project.

Not in your project as a buyer. There is no deliverable of your project which is a proposal, no activity by your project / WBS to produce a proposal, so 'proposal' is not an output of your project.

The invited vendors will produce proposals. they do this in their 'proposal creating' projects, which they fund and they charter. Their project sponsor is NOT your project sponsor (but probably a sales director). They might even chose not to bid and not to charter such a project (and then you will get no proposal from those).

The PMBoK Guide covers this project type as a full project in its own right, NOT a procurement activity (they are not procuring, you are).

'Conduct procurement' does not create proposals, it creates the contract/agreement based on the proposal of the selected seller. So it needs their proposals as an input.
Thanks Sergio and Thomas.

According to Thomas, an output of an activity must necessarily be done by the buyer (owner). And since the sellers proposal is not done by the buyer himself it cannot be considered an output for the buyers processes.

What about the deliverable that is performed by a third party but is the output of direct and manage project work?
...
1 reply by Thomas Walenta
Jan 30, 2020 10:14 AM
Thomas Walenta
...
What about the deliverable that is performed by a third party but is the output of direct and manage project work?

In this case the third party is already selected, an agreement is signed (the proposal is irrelevant now) and they are considered to be part of the team/resources working on WBS packages of the buyers project, planned and controlled by the buyer.

There are some procurement related activities the buyer has to consider on top of that, these fall under manage procurement then.

Another hint: there are some other artifacts that are inputs but not outputs of PMBoK processes, like the business case and any EEFs.
The first three (A, B, C) exists before the project is initiated.

All the other 9 items will at some point be an output first before it can be an input subsequently. I don’t see sellers response anywhere in PMBOK as an output. And it definitely does not exist before the project is initiated. Maybe this is another way to express it.

A• Business documents
B• EEFs
C• OPA

1• Project Charter.
2• Project Management Plan.
3• Project Documents
4• Work performance data, info and reports.
5• Procurement Documents
6• Seller Proposal
7• Agreements
8• Change requests (new, rejected, approved)
9• Deliverable

The only process I see fit for bringing into existence the sellers proposal is conduct procurement.

And coincidentally this same process continues to use what it brings into existence as inputs. Like regurgitatation.
...
1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Jan 30, 2020 10:34 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
...
Richard, A-B-C could or not could exists before a project is initiated and mainly it could not be in the same status then before the project exists.
Jan 30, 2020 10:01 AM
Replying to Richard Darko
...
Thanks Sergio and Thomas.

According to Thomas, an output of an activity must necessarily be done by the buyer (owner). And since the sellers proposal is not done by the buyer himself it cannot be considered an output for the buyers processes.

What about the deliverable that is performed by a third party but is the output of direct and manage project work?
What about the deliverable that is performed by a third party but is the output of direct and manage project work?

In this case the third party is already selected, an agreement is signed (the proposal is irrelevant now) and they are considered to be part of the team/resources working on WBS packages of the buyers project, planned and controlled by the buyer.

There are some procurement related activities the buyer has to consider on top of that, these fall under manage procurement then.

Another hint: there are some other artifacts that are inputs but not outputs of PMBoK processes, like the business case and any EEFs.
...
1 reply by Richard Darko
Jan 30, 2020 10:43 AM
Richard Darko
...
“Another hint: there are some other artifacts that are inputs but not outputs of PMBoK processes, like the business case and any EEFs.”

Yes I had already stated this as A,B,C.

They just appear as input. Because they existed before the Project. But not Sellers Proposal.

Let me perhaps say this a bit differently again. Supposing I run a Procurement managemt consultancy firm. My client has consulted me to acquire for him three competitive proposals.

I will only end up doing some of the conduct procurement activities for him.

My deliverable are the sellers proposal.

So I really think the sellers proposals should be credited also as an output of some process.

It doesn’t matter it’s actually done by a third party. As is the case of a deliverable being excited by a third party but is credited as an output in Direct and Manage Project work.

“In this case the third party is already selected, an agreement is signed“

Already selected or not it’s still a third party. And if a third party’s activity can be a valid output then in my opinion so should also be the Sellers Proposal.

In many instances PMBOK itself uses the phrase “includes but not limited to”. But for a critical input or output to be explicitly missed I think is an error.

Fortunately there will be PMBOK 7 soon. So will wait and see.
Jan 30, 2020 10:06 AM
Replying to Richard Darko
...
The first three (A, B, C) exists before the project is initiated.

All the other 9 items will at some point be an output first before it can be an input subsequently. I don’t see sellers response anywhere in PMBOK as an output. And it definitely does not exist before the project is initiated. Maybe this is another way to express it.

A• Business documents
B• EEFs
C• OPA

1• Project Charter.
2• Project Management Plan.
3• Project Documents
4• Work performance data, info and reports.
5• Procurement Documents
6• Seller Proposal
7• Agreements
8• Change requests (new, rejected, approved)
9• Deliverable

The only process I see fit for bringing into existence the sellers proposal is conduct procurement.

And coincidentally this same process continues to use what it brings into existence as inputs. Like regurgitatation.
Richard, A-B-C could or not could exists before a project is initiated and mainly it could not be in the same status then before the project exists.
...
1 reply by Richard Darko
Jan 30, 2020 10:52 AM
Richard Darko
...
Some OPAs are updated during the project. But before it could be updated it exists as an input.

Kindly refere me to which of the 49 processes has Business document updates and EEF updates as an output.
Jan 30, 2020 10:14 AM
Replying to Thomas Walenta
...
What about the deliverable that is performed by a third party but is the output of direct and manage project work?

In this case the third party is already selected, an agreement is signed (the proposal is irrelevant now) and they are considered to be part of the team/resources working on WBS packages of the buyers project, planned and controlled by the buyer.

There are some procurement related activities the buyer has to consider on top of that, these fall under manage procurement then.

Another hint: there are some other artifacts that are inputs but not outputs of PMBoK processes, like the business case and any EEFs.
“Another hint: there are some other artifacts that are inputs but not outputs of PMBoK processes, like the business case and any EEFs.”

Yes I had already stated this as A,B,C.

They just appear as input. Because they existed before the Project. But not Sellers Proposal.

Let me perhaps say this a bit differently again. Supposing I run a Procurement managemt consultancy firm. My client has consulted me to acquire for him three competitive proposals.

I will only end up doing some of the conduct procurement activities for him.

My deliverable are the sellers proposal.

So I really think the sellers proposals should be credited also as an output of some process.

It doesn’t matter it’s actually done by a third party. As is the case of a deliverable being excited by a third party but is credited as an output in Direct and Manage Project work.

“In this case the third party is already selected, an agreement is signed“

Already selected or not it’s still a third party. And if a third party’s activity can be a valid output then in my opinion so should also be the Sellers Proposal.

In many instances PMBOK itself uses the phrase “includes but not limited to”. But for a critical input or output to be explicitly missed I think is an error.

Fortunately there will be PMBOK 7 soon. So will wait and see.
Jan 30, 2020 10:34 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
...
Richard, A-B-C could or not could exists before a project is initiated and mainly it could not be in the same status then before the project exists.
Some OPAs are updated during the project. But before it could be updated it exists as an input.

Kindly refere me to which of the 49 processes has Business document updates and EEF updates as an output.
...
1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Jan 30, 2020 10:54 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
...
Good enough for me. Good luck.
Jan 30, 2020 10:52 AM
Replying to Richard Darko
...
Some OPAs are updated during the project. But before it could be updated it exists as an input.

Kindly refere me to which of the 49 processes has Business document updates and EEF updates as an output.
Good enough for me. Good luck.
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