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Topics: Agile, Organizational Project Management, Talent Management
Choose your WoW and Shu-Ha- Ri
Choose your WoW and Shu-Ha- Ri

- To what extent are these concepts and their application complementary?

- To what extent are these concepts and their application contradictory?

I really want to have your opinion on this topic
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On the surface, Ha & Ri are certainly well aligned with having a team discover their way of working which in some cases might go against the default way of doing things. But Shu doesn't have to mean blind adherence to all practices - even semi-autonomous teams have to align with enterprise policies and standards and hence Shu also applies.

Kiron
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1 reply by Luis Branco
Nov 07, 2020 9:15 AM
Luis Branco
...
Dear Kiron
Thank you for participating in this reflection and for your opinion
We have different interpretations of what is the concept of SHU Ha RI
Interesting your perspective
Nov 07, 2020 9:09 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
...
On the surface, Ha & Ri are certainly well aligned with having a team discover their way of working which in some cases might go against the default way of doing things. But Shu doesn't have to mean blind adherence to all practices - even semi-autonomous teams have to align with enterprise policies and standards and hence Shu also applies.

Kiron
Dear Kiron
Thank you for participating in this reflection and for your opinion
We have different interpretations of what is the concept of SHU Ha RI
Interesting your perspective
Hi Luis

good question to put things in perspective. My view is:

Shu ha ri is a model gained thru observing how humans learn and develop. It is here since hundreds of years and works in any educational area (and all humans are educated at some time).

Choosing your WoW is in contrast a marketing phrase developed by a few gurus from the SW development realm, like many concepts in the agile space.

(not here to make friends)
...
1 reply by Luis Branco
Nov 08, 2020 9:58 AM
Luis Branco
...
Dear Thomas
Thank you for participating in this reflection and for your opinion
I understand SHU HA RI as a method to follow for people to learn (developed in martial arts so that learners achieve mastery in a given subject)
I am convinced that in the SHU phase, processes and procedures are strictly followed.
With this question I wanted to get other views on the topic (instead of creating friends)
Do "many concepts in the agile space" need to be better considered?
Or is it just a matter of marketing?
Nov 08, 2020 9:16 AM
Replying to Thomas Walenta
...
Hi Luis

good question to put things in perspective. My view is:

Shu ha ri is a model gained thru observing how humans learn and develop. It is here since hundreds of years and works in any educational area (and all humans are educated at some time).

Choosing your WoW is in contrast a marketing phrase developed by a few gurus from the SW development realm, like many concepts in the agile space.

(not here to make friends)
Dear Thomas
Thank you for participating in this reflection and for your opinion
I understand SHU HA RI as a method to follow for people to learn (developed in martial arts so that learners achieve mastery in a given subject)
I am convinced that in the SHU phase, processes and procedures are strictly followed.
With this question I wanted to get other views on the topic (instead of creating friends)
Do "many concepts in the agile space" need to be better considered?
Or is it just a matter of marketing?
...
1 reply by Thomas Walenta
Nov 08, 2020 10:47 AM
Thomas Walenta
...
Hi Luis

agree with your characterization of Shu. The purpose is to learn and it relates to the individual.

WoW is a concept not directly related to learning but to performance and it may apply to a team making that choice.

Any views and concepts have a value as they extend our knowledge and perspectives.

I am suspicious if concepts are based on beliefs and presented as general solutions.

Chosing a WoW was called tayloring before.

So why use a new name for old ideas?

Cui bono?
Nov 08, 2020 9:58 AM
Replying to Luis Branco
...
Dear Thomas
Thank you for participating in this reflection and for your opinion
I understand SHU HA RI as a method to follow for people to learn (developed in martial arts so that learners achieve mastery in a given subject)
I am convinced that in the SHU phase, processes and procedures are strictly followed.
With this question I wanted to get other views on the topic (instead of creating friends)
Do "many concepts in the agile space" need to be better considered?
Or is it just a matter of marketing?
Hi Luis

agree with your characterization of Shu. The purpose is to learn and it relates to the individual.

WoW is a concept not directly related to learning but to performance and it may apply to a team making that choice.

Any views and concepts have a value as they extend our knowledge and perspectives.

I am suspicious if concepts are based on beliefs and presented as general solutions.

Chosing a WoW was called tayloring before.

So why use a new name for old ideas?

Cui bono?
...
1 reply by Luis Branco
Nov 08, 2020 12:16 PM
Luis Branco
...
Dear Thomas:
We agree with the SHU
If WoW is the same as, as you mentioned, tailoring is a concept that applies to all projects and their development approaches
Really, cui bono?
Nov 08, 2020 10:47 AM
Replying to Thomas Walenta
...
Hi Luis

agree with your characterization of Shu. The purpose is to learn and it relates to the individual.

WoW is a concept not directly related to learning but to performance and it may apply to a team making that choice.

Any views and concepts have a value as they extend our knowledge and perspectives.

I am suspicious if concepts are based on beliefs and presented as general solutions.

Chosing a WoW was called tayloring before.

So why use a new name for old ideas?

Cui bono?
Dear Thomas:
We agree with the SHU
If WoW is the same as, as you mentioned, tailoring is a concept that applies to all projects and their development approaches
Really, cui bono?
In my way of thinking a team's or individual's "way-of-working" (WoW) evolves within the requirements and constraints of a project. It normally starts with a dominant team member's or corporate's concept of doing things but the team and conditions will influence over time until you reach a unique way of doing things (WoW).
.
Shu - Follow the rules, obeying the rules to keep or maintain.
Ha - Move away from the rules, to detach or break free.
Ri - Unconsciously finding an individual path, means to go beyond or transcend. [ProjectManagement.com - Shu-Ha-Ri Model of Skill Mastery]

Looking at it from that perspective The path to WoW starts with Shu, moves through Ha and ends up at Ri. Thus Shu Ha Ri is the process and WoW is the end result of that process.

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