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What if "a cross functional SCRUM team" is been split as DEV team and Test team under two managers.
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Was just wondering what are the pros and cons if a cross functional team working under a manager on a product has been split into two teams - DEV and testing team and moved to two managers. Does the efficiency and quality increase ? Does coordination decrease ? Will there be an overhead of documentation and communications ? Will there be conflicts ? If YES, how to resolve them ? How to make it work ?
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Scrum is a framework not a method then you can fill the framework as you want. Some things inside the framework has to be follow because if not then you are not running the framework. One of them are defined roles. You will not find manager role into Scrum. Beyond that, from an Agile point if view, because Agile by definition is a "way of thinking and behave with focus on client and quality to deliver constant value" that is the only thing you have to take into account. Obviously your organization must define terms like "client", "quality" and "value". If you ask me, returning to the use of Scrum, taking the information you stated, it has no sense to have managers and splitted the team because test is embedded into the work itself. Remember you have at lest three levels of testing so perhaps that is the problem you have to solve. Two of those levels are outside of Scrum or the development team.
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1 reply by anonymous
Mar 05, 2018 1:51 PM
anonymous
...
Thanks for your response. Sorry, I used generic terms. I will try to be careful now.
This is not in my org but was a query asked in another social group of Project managers (whatsapp)

Company is a product based software company.
SCRUM team had 8 members which include developers, testers, UI expert and scrum master.
They follow all SCRUM practices.
There was an organizational structure change which made the SCRUM team split into two reporting to two functional managers (DEV and Testing)
Because of this change - Development team has their own status meeting and testing team has their own status meeting.
Both as well meet up to a stand up

There is a bit of variation between the processes followed by DEV and processes followed by testing (enterprise environmental factors ?)

Because of this org change (in model) its obvious that communication channels increased (n*(n-1)/2), stakeholders increased, processes increased, communication gaps increased and there is potential for conflicts.

What are your thoughts to make this model successful ? Also, do you think the quality of the product will increase if these two functions are independent ?
Anonymous
Mar 05, 2018 1:23 PM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
...
Scrum is a framework not a method then you can fill the framework as you want. Some things inside the framework has to be follow because if not then you are not running the framework. One of them are defined roles. You will not find manager role into Scrum. Beyond that, from an Agile point if view, because Agile by definition is a "way of thinking and behave with focus on client and quality to deliver constant value" that is the only thing you have to take into account. Obviously your organization must define terms like "client", "quality" and "value". If you ask me, returning to the use of Scrum, taking the information you stated, it has no sense to have managers and splitted the team because test is embedded into the work itself. Remember you have at lest three levels of testing so perhaps that is the problem you have to solve. Two of those levels are outside of Scrum or the development team.
Thanks for your response. Sorry, I used generic terms. I will try to be careful now.
This is not in my org but was a query asked in another social group of Project managers (whatsapp)

Company is a product based software company.
SCRUM team had 8 members which include developers, testers, UI expert and scrum master.
They follow all SCRUM practices.
There was an organizational structure change which made the SCRUM team split into two reporting to two functional managers (DEV and Testing)
Because of this change - Development team has their own status meeting and testing team has their own status meeting.
Both as well meet up to a stand up

There is a bit of variation between the processes followed by DEV and processes followed by testing (enterprise environmental factors ?)

Because of this org change (in model) its obvious that communication channels increased (n*(n-1)/2), stakeholders increased, processes increased, communication gaps increased and there is potential for conflicts.

What are your thoughts to make this model successful ? Also, do you think the quality of the product will increase if these two functions are independent ?
...
1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Mar 05, 2018 4:49 PM
Sergio Luis Conte
...
Please do not apologize. I am with @Kiron comment above. In fact, is funny. Organizations hired me from more than 20 years ago to help them to implement Agile (methods like Scrum and practices) in a silo-like architecture when Agile is about to integrate. You case is the opposite. Organizations in the whole world (including the organization where I am working today) are behind integration. Your organization is making the opposite. It is not a concern. If they are making that there is a strategical reason. What to do? If your organization decide to continue with Scrum then somebody must integrate the whole team. For each initiative they must work as a cell. Dev manager and Testing manager must forget they are managers of the people is working inside the cell assigned to the initiative. Once again, the reason could be a strategic reason but believe me your organization is buying a headache.
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Splitting agile teams by function is a shift back to silo/waterfall-like practices. Just because folks have people reporting relationships to different managers shouldn't justify splitting them away from team members working on the same product.

This increases the likelihood of an "us & them" situation as team culture, rituals and so on will diverge between the two teams. It also drives the need for greater formality around handoffs (e.g. crisp DoR/DoD).

Kiron
Network:1640



Mar 05, 2018 1:51 PM
Replying to anonymous
...
Thanks for your response. Sorry, I used generic terms. I will try to be careful now.
This is not in my org but was a query asked in another social group of Project managers (whatsapp)

Company is a product based software company.
SCRUM team had 8 members which include developers, testers, UI expert and scrum master.
They follow all SCRUM practices.
There was an organizational structure change which made the SCRUM team split into two reporting to two functional managers (DEV and Testing)
Because of this change - Development team has their own status meeting and testing team has their own status meeting.
Both as well meet up to a stand up

There is a bit of variation between the processes followed by DEV and processes followed by testing (enterprise environmental factors ?)

Because of this org change (in model) its obvious that communication channels increased (n*(n-1)/2), stakeholders increased, processes increased, communication gaps increased and there is potential for conflicts.

What are your thoughts to make this model successful ? Also, do you think the quality of the product will increase if these two functions are independent ?
Please do not apologize. I am with @Kiron comment above. In fact, is funny. Organizations hired me from more than 20 years ago to help them to implement Agile (methods like Scrum and practices) in a silo-like architecture when Agile is about to integrate. You case is the opposite. Organizations in the whole world (including the organization where I am working today) are behind integration. Your organization is making the opposite. It is not a concern. If they are making that there is a strategical reason. What to do? If your organization decide to continue with Scrum then somebody must integrate the whole team. For each initiative they must work as a cell. Dev manager and Testing manager must forget they are managers of the people is working inside the cell assigned to the initiative. Once again, the reason could be a strategic reason but believe me your organization is buying a headache.
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Bad idea! This is not Scrum and it is not Agile. The point of Agility is to have cross-functional teams, and to steer away from a competitive rather than a collaborative environment.
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I follow but do not understand. What was the driver for a change like this? Even if the individuals in those roles report to different functional managers, what does that have to do with the team? Is there still a Scrum Master? Is it even still a Scrum Team? By the way its described, one team became two independent teams and so in effect, are no longer a scrum team, or a team for that matter.

I worked for a large healthcare organization years ago. One scrum team were comprised of individuals reporting to different managers. Developers had their managers (not all the same), analysts theirs, and QA theirs - but we were all one scrum team, with one SM and one PO.
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1 reply by anonymous
Mar 05, 2018 9:00 PM
anonymous
...
I think the main motive behind the split is - Product Quality improvement.
If DEV and TEST are separated then TEST team will have the independent perspective of Product and can contribute to a quality product.

There is no quantifiable evidence on this till date. I think this is the perception from the management
Anonymous
I think the main motive behind the split is - Product Quality improvement.
If DEV and TEST are separated then TEST team will have the independent perspective of Product and can contribute to a quality product.

There is no quantifiable evidence on this till date. I think this is the perception from the management
Anonymous
Mar 05, 2018 8:09 PM
Replying to Andrew Craig
...
I follow but do not understand. What was the driver for a change like this? Even if the individuals in those roles report to different functional managers, what does that have to do with the team? Is there still a Scrum Master? Is it even still a Scrum Team? By the way its described, one team became two independent teams and so in effect, are no longer a scrum team, or a team for that matter.

I worked for a large healthcare organization years ago. One scrum team were comprised of individuals reporting to different managers. Developers had their managers (not all the same), analysts theirs, and QA theirs - but we were all one scrum team, with one SM and one PO.
I think the main motive behind the split is - Product Quality improvement.
If DEV and TEST are separated then TEST team will have the independent perspective of Product and can contribute to a quality product.

There is no quantifiable evidence on this till date. I think this is the perception from the management
Network:98570



I agree with Kiron and Sante on this.

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