Joshua RenderProduct Owner| CognizantHarrisville, Ny, United States
I will ask again since when I originally asked it during the talent and tech expo and it got wiped off the board real quick. (or no one wanted to answer it).
I have seen and been involved in, a couple of debates on what exactly Agile means. I rather enjoy those debates and learning what others think about it.
To me, Agile is a generic umbrella term for frameworks and methods that meet a certain set of guiding principles and practices.
What Does Agile Mean?
What is/should be included within a detailed Agile definition (guiding principles/practices)?
Has the hype around Agile caused the definition to warp some? Saving Changes...
Joshua RenderProduct Owner| CognizantHarrisville, Ny, United States
My response to Sergio and his blog post- "Very well said. One thing I guess that may not get enough thought in Agile is a focus on organizational goals. That is I believe a DSDM principle, to focus on the goals of the organization."
With that in mind - Does Agile provide enough opportunity and/or focus on the goals or needs of the organization? Is this outside the bounds of Agile, or right in the domain it should be in?
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Jun 18, 2018 6:08 PM
Sergio Luis Conte
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That is the point. Believe me, from 1995 up to date organization are asking me to help them to implement Agile (in the best case) but more to fix the mess that the intention to implement Agile has created (the worst case for me). The second is the worst case because not matter that means more work opportunity for me in the short term is not good becasue it could jeopardize the work opportunities in the middle-long term due to some organizations are saying "agile does not work". The reason because the mess is created is because organizations think that Agile is about to implement a method and forgot the architecture. Culture, for example, in one of the key variables inside the business layer. Structure is other and so on. So, the important thing is to evaluate if the organization is ready. To understand the current status and to understand the desire status and into the gap you will find all you need. With it on hand then organizations can decide if they can use Agile or not or the strategy to use it in steps. It is impossible to changes things by revolution. Revolutions are bloody.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Jun 18, 2018 5:06 PM
Replying to Joshua Render
...
My response to Sergio and his blog post- "Very well said. One thing I guess that may not get enough thought in Agile is a focus on organizational goals. That is I believe a DSDM principle, to focus on the goals of the organization."
With that in mind - Does Agile provide enough opportunity and/or focus on the goals or needs of the organization? Is this outside the bounds of Agile, or right in the domain it should be in?
That is the point. Believe me, from 1995 up to date organization are asking me to help them to implement Agile (in the best case) but more to fix the mess that the intention to implement Agile has created (the worst case for me). The second is the worst case because not matter that means more work opportunity for me in the short term is not good becasue it could jeopardize the work opportunities in the middle-long term due to some organizations are saying "agile does not work". The reason because the mess is created is because organizations think that Agile is about to implement a method and forgot the architecture. Culture, for example, in one of the key variables inside the business layer. Structure is other and so on. So, the important thing is to evaluate if the organization is ready. To understand the current status and to understand the desire status and into the gap you will find all you need. With it on hand then organizations can decide if they can use Agile or not or the strategy to use it in steps. It is impossible to changes things by revolution. Revolutions are bloody. Saving Changes...
Anish AbrahamPrivacy Program Manager| University of WashingtonAuburn, Wa, United States
Jun 18, 2018 10:01 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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Sorry for joining late to the party, but here I am (hehehehe). Agile was "formaly" born in 1990 inside the USA DoD NSF/Agility Forum which took place inside the Leihigh University trying to find an alternative to Lean (because of that Lean and Agile are not the same). It was moved by one seminal article published in middle 1980 in the USA named "Agile Manufacturing". Time after people that have methods to create software products and those methods were created taken Lean model they created the Manifesto (the word "software" is inside the name becasue a reason). The definitions created into the Forum are Agile:A way of thought and behave whose focus is the increase of value for the client and the quality", agility: "Be able respond to a wide variety of unexpected external surprises and create external surprises.Being agile will assist businesses who face unpredictable circumstances"
This is a short article published by the PMI:
"Perfectly Positioned", http://www.pmnetwork-digital.com/pmnetwork/april_2016?pg=73#pg73 "Perfectatmente Posicionado",http://www.pmnetwork-spanish.com/pmnetwork...016?pg=68#pg68. Here some articles that I think could help to understand that Agile is not a synonim of software and in this case take the whole potential of Agile:
https://steveblank.com/2016/11/10/how-the-...vation-culture/ https://hbr.org/1986/01/the-new-new-product-development-game https://hbr.org/2016/04/the-secret-history-of-agile-innovation https://www.scruminc.com/wp-content/upload...-with-Agile.pdf
Thanks for sharing the info, Sergio Saving Changes...
Anton OosthuizenSenior Business Analyst / Project Manager| Self EmployedPretoria, Gauteng, South Africa
Jun 18, 2018 3:03 PM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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It is inside the definition itself. You can apply Agile practices with waterfall life cycle. It is nothing related to use iterative or incremental.
I beg to differ. It is the concept of incremental, or iteration that gives you the ability to be flexible i.e. agile. If you work from a fixed predefined object for the whole project then there is no way you can facilitate change in the way you would if you planned ahead in small chunks. Yes you can apply agility to any methodology but by doing so you are essentially changing that methodology hence it is not really what it was.
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Jun 20, 2018 5:56 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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Anton, Agile is not related to methodology. In fact, most of the people confuse waterfall with sequential. Waterfall has feedback loops so waterfall has iterations. The point is: to apply Agile organiztion must define things like "client", "value" and "quality". If organizations do not define that first then it is imposible to apply Agile. Agile is a matter of strategy because is a way to answer the environment events and to create enviroment events. Knowledge is the key component of Agile and it is dificult to find a line about it except from those works that takes Agile seriourly.
Sergio, It is too technical for a general/conventional Project Manager to perceive the concept of Agile.
I think I did a total project on agile methodology and most of us are doing it unknowingly.
If you build your house with own ideas and designs, it is more of a living example of agile project management.
You would keep deciding and redesigning the features of your house the way you want it. The next phase would be evolving only after the previous one is finished. This situation is predominent at the finishing stages; where your better half and kids shall have their say in selection of many of the items and incorporation of specific features of their choice.
Open for your comments please.
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Jun 20, 2018 6:01 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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Agile is not technical. I really do not understand why people can understand Lean and sometimes do not understand Agile. Both are different things but both was born from the same reason. The problem with Agile is organizations need to transform the whole structure to implement Agile. One of the situations to understand that is when the organzation try to une an agile based software developmement method. When trying to use a method is when it faces with things that belongs to enteprise architecture: cutture, structure, style, etc. etc. Unfortunatelly most of the organizations when facing that quit the idea and say "agile does not work". At the end is not new. Its the same than anything organizations want to introduce to doing things.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Jun 20, 2018 1:45 AM
Replying to Anton Oosthuizen
...
I beg to differ. It is the concept of incremental, or iteration that gives you the ability to be flexible i.e. agile. If you work from a fixed predefined object for the whole project then there is no way you can facilitate change in the way you would if you planned ahead in small chunks. Yes you can apply agility to any methodology but by doing so you are essentially changing that methodology hence it is not really what it was.
Anton, Agile is not related to methodology. In fact, most of the people confuse waterfall with sequential. Waterfall has feedback loops so waterfall has iterations. The point is: to apply Agile organiztion must define things like "client", "value" and "quality". If organizations do not define that first then it is imposible to apply Agile. Agile is a matter of strategy because is a way to answer the environment events and to create enviroment events. Knowledge is the key component of Agile and it is dificult to find a line about it except from those works that takes Agile seriourly.
...
1 reply by Anton Oosthuizen
Jun 20, 2018 9:00 AM
Anton Oosthuizen
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We should seriously stop hammering terminology instead of addressing the issue at hand. I did not say agile is a methodology or is related to a methodology. What I said is that if you apply any principles to an existing methodology i.e, waterfall, to make it agile you are in essence changing that methodology. You said that agile has nothing to do with iteration or incremental approach. You are wrong. NO matter how you prefer to reference Agile, the basic gist of agility is the ability to adapt, to be agile, to accommodate change at the latest possible point. If the practice of doing incremental planning, release etc. does not provide you with this then I don't know what.
I think everybody agrees that implementing any Agile framework in an organization demand a culture change, that is something I've never seen anybody dispute.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Jun 20, 2018 5:45 AM
Replying to DILEEP KUMAR RAROTH
...
Sergio, It is too technical for a general/conventional Project Manager to perceive the concept of Agile.
I think I did a total project on agile methodology and most of us are doing it unknowingly.
If you build your house with own ideas and designs, it is more of a living example of agile project management.
You would keep deciding and redesigning the features of your house the way you want it. The next phase would be evolving only after the previous one is finished. This situation is predominent at the finishing stages; where your better half and kids shall have their say in selection of many of the items and incorporation of specific features of their choice.
Open for your comments please.
Agile is not technical. I really do not understand why people can understand Lean and sometimes do not understand Agile. Both are different things but both was born from the same reason. The problem with Agile is organizations need to transform the whole structure to implement Agile. One of the situations to understand that is when the organzation try to une an agile based software developmement method. When trying to use a method is when it faces with things that belongs to enteprise architecture: cutture, structure, style, etc. etc. Unfortunatelly most of the organizations when facing that quit the idea and say "agile does not work". At the end is not new. Its the same than anything organizations want to introduce to doing things. Saving Changes...
Anton OosthuizenSenior Business Analyst / Project Manager| Self EmployedPretoria, Gauteng, South Africa
Jun 20, 2018 5:56 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
...
Anton, Agile is not related to methodology. In fact, most of the people confuse waterfall with sequential. Waterfall has feedback loops so waterfall has iterations. The point is: to apply Agile organiztion must define things like "client", "value" and "quality". If organizations do not define that first then it is imposible to apply Agile. Agile is a matter of strategy because is a way to answer the environment events and to create enviroment events. Knowledge is the key component of Agile and it is dificult to find a line about it except from those works that takes Agile seriourly.
We should seriously stop hammering terminology instead of addressing the issue at hand. I did not say agile is a methodology or is related to a methodology. What I said is that if you apply any principles to an existing methodology i.e, waterfall, to make it agile you are in essence changing that methodology. You said that agile has nothing to do with iteration or incremental approach. You are wrong. NO matter how you prefer to reference Agile, the basic gist of agility is the ability to adapt, to be agile, to accommodate change at the latest possible point. If the practice of doing incremental planning, release etc. does not provide you with this then I don't know what.
I think everybody agrees that implementing any Agile framework in an organization demand a culture change, that is something I've never seen anybody dispute.
...
1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Jun 20, 2018 9:27 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
...
The problem is here: waterfall is not a method/methodology. That is the point. Waterfall is a life cycle process based on predictive life cycle models. The problem is people mix all: life cycle process, life cycle models, methods, etc. When people do that then is the first step to fail. In my current work place we are using Agile and Lean with waterfall based methods. On the other hand. my only intention to participate here, is to write about things that I saw are not usually taking into account. Thanks God I do not own the trhurt. So, that´s all from my side.
Saving Changes...
RAJESH K LProject Manager, PMP| Bharat Electronics, Bengaluru, IndiaBengaluru, Karnataka, India
English Dictionary meaning of Agile is:
agile
?ad???l/
adjective
adjective: agile
1.
able to move quickly and easily.
"Ruth was as agile as a monkey"
synonyms: nimble, lithe, spry, supple, limber, sprightly, acrobatic, dexterous, deft, willowy, graceful, light-footed, nimble-footed, light on one's feet, fleet-footed; More
active, fit, in good condition;
lively, vigorous, quick-moving;
informalnippy, twinkle-toed;
literaryfleet, lightsome
"the little girl was as agile as a monkey"
alert, sharp, acute, clever, shrewd, astute, intelligent, quick-witted, perceptive, penetrating, piercing, active, nimble, quick off the mark, finely honed, rapier-like;
informalsmart, on the ball
"his agile mind was forever seeking new ways of conserving energy"
antonyms: clumsy, stiff, slow, dull
able to think and understand quickly.
"his vague manner concealed an agile mind"
2.
relating to or denoting a method of project management, used especially for software development, that is characterized by the division of tasks into short phases of work and frequent reassessment and adaptation of plans.
"agile methods replace high-level design with frequent redesign" Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Jun 20, 2018 9:00 AM
Replying to Anton Oosthuizen
...
We should seriously stop hammering terminology instead of addressing the issue at hand. I did not say agile is a methodology or is related to a methodology. What I said is that if you apply any principles to an existing methodology i.e, waterfall, to make it agile you are in essence changing that methodology. You said that agile has nothing to do with iteration or incremental approach. You are wrong. NO matter how you prefer to reference Agile, the basic gist of agility is the ability to adapt, to be agile, to accommodate change at the latest possible point. If the practice of doing incremental planning, release etc. does not provide you with this then I don't know what.
I think everybody agrees that implementing any Agile framework in an organization demand a culture change, that is something I've never seen anybody dispute.
The problem is here: waterfall is not a method/methodology. That is the point. Waterfall is a life cycle process based on predictive life cycle models. The problem is people mix all: life cycle process, life cycle models, methods, etc. When people do that then is the first step to fail. In my current work place we are using Agile and Lean with waterfall based methods. On the other hand. my only intention to participate here, is to write about things that I saw are not usually taking into account. Thanks God I do not own the trhurt. So, that´s all from my side.
