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Are you a Female Project Manager? How do you succeed in a male dominated industry?

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Emily Luijbregts Project Manager| Siemens PLM Software Breda, Netherlands
Hi there,
I'm looking for some experience and examples of how other females lead and develop/progress in a male dominated environment?

Do you see it as a Problem? Has being a woman ever held you back from being considered for promotion/projects? or do you feel that your experience speaks for itself?

I'd love to hear from you! You can either reply here or PM me :)

Best wishes,
Emily.
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Eric Simms Senior Program Manager Baltimore, Maryland, United States
Sep 28, 2018 3:34 PM
Replying to Emily Luijbregts
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These are really interesting points made. Can I ask what do you do to work with the cultures/organisations that do oppress you? How do you succeed? Are there any tips that you can give?

Is it solely about not caring what others think (as per Eric's comment), or are there ways to 'play the game'?
One way to ‘play the game’ by using misogynists’ own arrogance against them. For example, in many work situations women do most of the essential work while their male bosses profit from their efforts. This arrangement works because society has trained women to focus so much on being accepted and liked that they will tolerate incredibly unfair situations. This focus is so strong that women fail to realize the immense power they hold, since most businesses would come to a screeching halt if they were to quit.
So, let’s say you’re a woman in an organization where you can’t advance due to misogyny. You know you’re doing most of the work but aren’t being fairly compensated for it. In this situation you could seek out new responsibilities to improve your resume. Don’t let the men know you’re doing this to grow, however; let them think you’re just being ingratiating. One day you can make the company an ultimatum – give you a particular position at a particular salary, or you’ll resign. The men will probably try to placate you with vague promises of a promotion sometime in the future or a partial salary increase. If they don’t accede to your demands, leave the company and take all your knowledge and experience with you.
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1 reply by Lenka Pincot
Oct 09, 2018 9:01 PM
Lenka Pincot
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Hi Eric! That’s very interesting strategy however it basically says to prepare exit doors, then push and if things don’t happen then leave. When women push for promotion or salary increase it is perceived differently than when men do the same. Women are not seen as strong or decisive, they are seen as too emotional, pushy, difficult to get on with. And this can backfire easily.

I would focus more on female leadership aspects and use benefits that comes from the way how women approach situations. In other words, I would not fight fire with fire. I know that it can be very frustrating by delivering good work and not getting recognition. But recognition comes with respect. And we can get respect even in environment dominated by male. When we are outnumbered we are also much more recognizable and rememberable. And then our success lasts.

I was once short-term interim trainer for automotive, I was training the whole country dealership network to introduce new car models on the European market. I was on an event with hundreds of people attending, the only female trainer ever. I worked very very hard to be able to deliver. My work was measured by several scores, I reached the top.
At the beginning people were approaching me with disbelief that i really exist - a female trainer. Then they learned my results. They were impressed and I got their respect. But who will they remember from that event? Army of men, equally successful, or the only female trainer?
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Lenka Pincot Chief of Staff to the CEO| Project Management Institute Paris, France
Oct 09, 2018 6:54 PM
Replying to Eric Simms
...
One way to ‘play the game’ by using misogynists’ own arrogance against them. For example, in many work situations women do most of the essential work while their male bosses profit from their efforts. This arrangement works because society has trained women to focus so much on being accepted and liked that they will tolerate incredibly unfair situations. This focus is so strong that women fail to realize the immense power they hold, since most businesses would come to a screeching halt if they were to quit.
So, let’s say you’re a woman in an organization where you can’t advance due to misogyny. You know you’re doing most of the work but aren’t being fairly compensated for it. In this situation you could seek out new responsibilities to improve your resume. Don’t let the men know you’re doing this to grow, however; let them think you’re just being ingratiating. One day you can make the company an ultimatum – give you a particular position at a particular salary, or you’ll resign. The men will probably try to placate you with vague promises of a promotion sometime in the future or a partial salary increase. If they don’t accede to your demands, leave the company and take all your knowledge and experience with you.
Hi Eric! That’s very interesting strategy however it basically says to prepare exit doors, then push and if things don’t happen then leave. When women push for promotion or salary increase it is perceived differently than when men do the same. Women are not seen as strong or decisive, they are seen as too emotional, pushy, difficult to get on with. And this can backfire easily.

I would focus more on female leadership aspects and use benefits that comes from the way how women approach situations. In other words, I would not fight fire with fire. I know that it can be very frustrating by delivering good work and not getting recognition. But recognition comes with respect. And we can get respect even in environment dominated by male. When we are outnumbered we are also much more recognizable and rememberable. And then our success lasts.

I was once short-term interim trainer for automotive, I was training the whole country dealership network to introduce new car models on the European market. I was on an event with hundreds of people attending, the only female trainer ever. I worked very very hard to be able to deliver. My work was measured by several scores, I reached the top.
At the beginning people were approaching me with disbelief that i really exist - a female trainer. Then they learned my results. They were impressed and I got their respect. But who will they remember from that event? Army of men, equally successful, or the only female trainer?
...
1 reply by Eric Simms
Oct 09, 2018 10:34 PM
Eric Simms
...
Hello Lenka,

You were in a situation where many people could see your good work; no one could conceal your efforts. What do you suggest women do when their work won’t be seen by others? I’m thinking in particular of women who work in organizations where some man above her is the visible face a department or division. These women are essentially faceless workers whose efforts make the man look good, but who remain unknown to people outside their immediate group. Such women can’t advance unless the man lets them, and he has no desire to promote workers who benefit him so much. In this situation I think a woman’s only recourse is to assert herself to get an advancement in her current company, or leave for a better opportunity.
Men describe women as emotional, pushy, and difficult to get on with just to intimidate them into meekly accepting subservient roles, and they will continue to use this tactic so long as it remains effective. I watched my former boss experience this for years. She was very competent and worked ridiculously hard, while her complete buffoon of a boss sat around and did little. She was so terrified of seeming pushy and demanding that she let him dump tons of his work on her, and she barely said a word in complaint. I think she rationalized this by telling herself her efforts would be rewarded one day, but I believe deep down she knows that’ll never happen. She remains in the same situation to this day, and likely will until she retires. I wish she would quit and join an organization that appreciates her; I'd love to see the horror on her boss' face as his free ride came to a very abrupt end.
I’m just giving my insider perspective of the situation. Misogynists are not going to develop a grudging respect for women, so trying to gradually win them over isn’t a feasible option. Such men have no qualms about lying to and manipulating women to keep them in inferior positions, so unless women who work for such men change their current situations or find new ones, their careers will be limited.
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Lenka Pincot Chief of Staff to the CEO| Project Management Institute Paris, France
Oct 09, 2018 4:47 PM
Replying to Eric Simms
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I'd say that 75% estimate is accurate when it comes to men applying for jobs. In fact, it's probably a bit less. As Larry says, many times a job's true requirements are combined with desired traits. Recruiters know these likely won't be met, but they figure there's no harm in asking anyway.
I’ve seen these number too in this report:
https://leanin.org/tips/mvp

They provide this explanation:
Women and men ascribe their success to different things. Men typically attribute their success to innate qualities and skills, while women often attribute success to external factors such as “working hard,” “getting lucky,” or “help from others.” Women and men also differ when it comes to explaining their failures. When a man fails, he attributes it to situational factors like “didn’t practice enough” or “not interested in the subject.” When a woman fails, she is more likely to attribute it to lack of ability.
As a result, women gives themselves less credit and don’t have confidence as men.
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Riyadh Salih Saskatchewan, Canada
Hi Emily, good to see you again this is really ongoing issue and it is vise versa man dominating jobs and women dominating jobs, but let's not forget that through history we have women ruled for centuries as queen or president or prime minister, this can be related to the culture and ritual of that society where women raised and how they get treated and what contribution women have made, we need balance to maintain equilibrium in the society and for that we need both male and female doing their part which might be slightly different due to some nature of work but both leads to prosperous society which man can not do by just himself. I know it will take time and efforts from both and maybe more on the female side to refuse the abused commercialized picture drawn by men to to put a woman standing (half N.) beside the car for advertisement, let's focus on the bright side as we do have a lots of very positive positions filled by women like pilot, Dr, lawyer, teacher, lab work, analyst, PM and the list goes on. together we build a society. All the respect for all women playing big roles in our lives.
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Eric Simms Senior Program Manager Baltimore, Maryland, United States
Oct 09, 2018 9:01 PM
Replying to Lenka Pincot
...
Hi Eric! That’s very interesting strategy however it basically says to prepare exit doors, then push and if things don’t happen then leave. When women push for promotion or salary increase it is perceived differently than when men do the same. Women are not seen as strong or decisive, they are seen as too emotional, pushy, difficult to get on with. And this can backfire easily.

I would focus more on female leadership aspects and use benefits that comes from the way how women approach situations. In other words, I would not fight fire with fire. I know that it can be very frustrating by delivering good work and not getting recognition. But recognition comes with respect. And we can get respect even in environment dominated by male. When we are outnumbered we are also much more recognizable and rememberable. And then our success lasts.

I was once short-term interim trainer for automotive, I was training the whole country dealership network to introduce new car models on the European market. I was on an event with hundreds of people attending, the only female trainer ever. I worked very very hard to be able to deliver. My work was measured by several scores, I reached the top.
At the beginning people were approaching me with disbelief that i really exist - a female trainer. Then they learned my results. They were impressed and I got their respect. But who will they remember from that event? Army of men, equally successful, or the only female trainer?
Hello Lenka,

You were in a situation where many people could see your good work; no one could conceal your efforts. What do you suggest women do when their work won’t be seen by others? I’m thinking in particular of women who work in organizations where some man above her is the visible face a department or division. These women are essentially faceless workers whose efforts make the man look good, but who remain unknown to people outside their immediate group. Such women can’t advance unless the man lets them, and he has no desire to promote workers who benefit him so much. In this situation I think a woman’s only recourse is to assert herself to get an advancement in her current company, or leave for a better opportunity.
Men describe women as emotional, pushy, and difficult to get on with just to intimidate them into meekly accepting subservient roles, and they will continue to use this tactic so long as it remains effective. I watched my former boss experience this for years. She was very competent and worked ridiculously hard, while her complete buffoon of a boss sat around and did little. She was so terrified of seeming pushy and demanding that she let him dump tons of his work on her, and she barely said a word in complaint. I think she rationalized this by telling herself her efforts would be rewarded one day, but I believe deep down she knows that’ll never happen. She remains in the same situation to this day, and likely will until she retires. I wish she would quit and join an organization that appreciates her; I'd love to see the horror on her boss' face as his free ride came to a very abrupt end.
I’m just giving my insider perspective of the situation. Misogynists are not going to develop a grudging respect for women, so trying to gradually win them over isn’t a feasible option. Such men have no qualms about lying to and manipulating women to keep them in inferior positions, so unless women who work for such men change their current situations or find new ones, their careers will be limited.
...
1 reply by Lenka Pincot
Oct 09, 2018 11:02 PM
Lenka Pincot
...
Hi Eric, that particular situation that I described was not that simple. But it was work for a client and I don’t want to put out details here publicly. Also, if I would fail, it would be recognized massively as confirmation that women has no place in such business.
In general I don’t agree that women can be made invisible by anyone. In your example when a boss makes a certain woman invisible, what would stop him from making a man invisible? There’s no difference. If that’s a bad boss, they can make recognition, reward or promotion hard for anyone working for them.
But then it depends on what a person wants and what risks are they willing to take. Man or woman. Sometimes you need to leave a company to get better job. Sometimes you need to fight to stand your case. Being a woman brings some things more difficult, like being perceived by others differently than men, but on the other hand women have capabilities that can be used in their advantage, like better listening skills, ability to grasp complex issues, connecting the dots, appreciation for soft values and finding ways how to encourage others.
What I’m saying is that women are not powerless but we need to find our way how to succeed and not try to win the men fights with their weapons. This approach is based on my experience and lessons learned. I’m in men dominated environment since high school (mathematics), I was one of 2 girls to 200 men in my college courses (Computer sciences), I joined management consultancy combined with IT and on and on. Others may have different experience and handled situations differently. We are all different. I just share my opinion not making it general truth.
avatar
Lenka Pincot Chief of Staff to the CEO| Project Management Institute Paris, France
Oct 09, 2018 10:34 PM
Replying to Eric Simms
...
Hello Lenka,

You were in a situation where many people could see your good work; no one could conceal your efforts. What do you suggest women do when their work won’t be seen by others? I’m thinking in particular of women who work in organizations where some man above her is the visible face a department or division. These women are essentially faceless workers whose efforts make the man look good, but who remain unknown to people outside their immediate group. Such women can’t advance unless the man lets them, and he has no desire to promote workers who benefit him so much. In this situation I think a woman’s only recourse is to assert herself to get an advancement in her current company, or leave for a better opportunity.
Men describe women as emotional, pushy, and difficult to get on with just to intimidate them into meekly accepting subservient roles, and they will continue to use this tactic so long as it remains effective. I watched my former boss experience this for years. She was very competent and worked ridiculously hard, while her complete buffoon of a boss sat around and did little. She was so terrified of seeming pushy and demanding that she let him dump tons of his work on her, and she barely said a word in complaint. I think she rationalized this by telling herself her efforts would be rewarded one day, but I believe deep down she knows that’ll never happen. She remains in the same situation to this day, and likely will until she retires. I wish she would quit and join an organization that appreciates her; I'd love to see the horror on her boss' face as his free ride came to a very abrupt end.
I’m just giving my insider perspective of the situation. Misogynists are not going to develop a grudging respect for women, so trying to gradually win them over isn’t a feasible option. Such men have no qualms about lying to and manipulating women to keep them in inferior positions, so unless women who work for such men change their current situations or find new ones, their careers will be limited.
Hi Eric, that particular situation that I described was not that simple. But it was work for a client and I don’t want to put out details here publicly. Also, if I would fail, it would be recognized massively as confirmation that women has no place in such business.
In general I don’t agree that women can be made invisible by anyone. In your example when a boss makes a certain woman invisible, what would stop him from making a man invisible? There’s no difference. If that’s a bad boss, they can make recognition, reward or promotion hard for anyone working for them.
But then it depends on what a person wants and what risks are they willing to take. Man or woman. Sometimes you need to leave a company to get better job. Sometimes you need to fight to stand your case. Being a woman brings some things more difficult, like being perceived by others differently than men, but on the other hand women have capabilities that can be used in their advantage, like better listening skills, ability to grasp complex issues, connecting the dots, appreciation for soft values and finding ways how to encourage others.
What I’m saying is that women are not powerless but we need to find our way how to succeed and not try to win the men fights with their weapons. This approach is based on my experience and lessons learned. I’m in men dominated environment since high school (mathematics), I was one of 2 girls to 200 men in my college courses (Computer sciences), I joined management consultancy combined with IT and on and on. Others may have different experience and handled situations differently. We are all different. I just share my opinion not making it general truth.
avatar
Maria Lekha Johnson Paris, France
Sep 27, 2018 8:40 AM
Replying to Girija Ramakrishnan
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I completely agree with your points, Eric. Even I had heard people talking behind my back as being pushy. On the contrary men are appreciated for being pushy !
Same here...
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GULIN KURUCAK Texas, United States
Hi Emily,
I am also working in a male-dominated firm. If you are a successfull PM, your gender should not be an issue. If you feel, you are not getting what you deserve because of your gender, you should talk to your bosses and say your opinions.
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