Ruth Marina Lopez PerezResponsable TI| INSTITUTO DE PREVISION SOCIAL MILITAR - NICARAGUAMasaya, Los Madrigales, Nindirí, Nicaragua
I think in a mix use of LeSS and SAFE make the nivelation. However, SAFE is more valuable.
I agree with Sante and Kiron (Salomons of ancient Israel). I stay with SAFE. Saving Changes...
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Sep 24, 2018 10:40 AM
Replying to Lenka Pincot
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Thanks Rami, I would love to understand what are the best decision criteria when it comes to particular organizations. E.g. total size? Number of development teams? Agility at the current time? Industry and variety of processes that are performed in the organization? Solid scrum in place?
I would like to understant those particulars too as I am no expert in both so I look forward to see others feedback. Cheers. ! Saving Changes...
Lenka PincotChief of Staff to the CEO| Project Management InstituteParis, France
Sep 24, 2018 10:44 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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Yes, I personally worked a lot with DaD and his creator and we work a lot with DaD in my actual work place. Including we are in the process to implement DevOps too. If you ask me, I go with DaD indeed for lot of reasons that I can justify. My actual work place switch to SAFe because top management considered the inherent orientation to prescription could be useful to implement Agile environments in our actual reality. To be honest, I was totally in the opposite but I do not have the final decision. So, here I am, in charge to make SAFe implementation happend.
I’m sorry to hear that you need to do it even if you’re not happy about that. But perhaps you’ll find positives. I always found challenging to work in enviroment of various maturity levels. And for several teams it is easier to go through a change that’s more prescriptive and less creative. It helps to reduce the anxiety related to a change. Wish you good luck!!
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Sep 24, 2018 10:59 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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Just to comment Lenka, after doing the enteprise analysis and after running some pilot projects I presented the impact analysis of the use of three models. SAFe, LeSS and DaD. Because my duties I presented it with a personal recommendation creating my own analysis about the future of those frameworks, The good thing for me is that top management choose according my impact analysis. So, they exactly know the risk that each alternative have. Then, I am going to do my job with all "cards laying on the table". I am happy to help the organization to be successful with SAFe implementation, believe me. Is a new challenge for me.
Saving Changes...
Lenka PincotChief of Staff to the CEO| Project Management InstituteParis, France
I would wonder how to mix them because LeSS sounds flexible and SAFe is very prescriptive so what would be the mix? Would it stills be one of them or just more structured LeSS? Or not SAFe half-way?
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Sep 24, 2018 11:02 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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In my personal opinion, while I know that "impossible is nothing", the worst thing you can do is mixing both. In fact, SAFe is a "bag of cats" which is constanty changed and some of the changes are not consistent.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Sep 24, 2018 10:54 AM
Replying to Lenka Pincot
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I’m sorry to hear that you need to do it even if you’re not happy about that. But perhaps you’ll find positives. I always found challenging to work in enviroment of various maturity levels. And for several teams it is easier to go through a change that’s more prescriptive and less creative. It helps to reduce the anxiety related to a change. Wish you good luck!!
Just to comment Lenka, after doing the enteprise analysis and after running some pilot projects I presented the impact analysis of the use of three models. SAFe, LeSS and DaD. Because my duties I presented it with a personal recommendation creating my own analysis about the future of those frameworks, The good thing for me is that top management choose according my impact analysis. So, they exactly know the risk that each alternative have. Then, I am going to do my job with all "cards laying on the table". I am happy to help the organization to be successful with SAFe implementation, believe me. Is a new challenge for me.
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1 reply by Lenka Pincot
Sep 24, 2018 11:04 AM
Lenka Pincot
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Great:) that’s sound very good!!
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Sep 24, 2018 10:56 AM
Replying to Lenka Pincot
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I would wonder how to mix them because LeSS sounds flexible and SAFe is very prescriptive so what would be the mix? Would it stills be one of them or just more structured LeSS? Or not SAFe half-way?
In my personal opinion, while I know that "impossible is nothing", the worst thing you can do is mixing both. In fact, SAFe is a "bag of cats" which is constanty changed and some of the changes are not consistent.
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1 reply by Lenka Pincot
Sep 24, 2018 11:05 AM
Lenka Pincot
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Agree. I think it would be none of that after a mix...
Saving Changes...
Lenka PincotChief of Staff to the CEO| Project Management InstituteParis, France
Sep 24, 2018 10:59 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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Just to comment Lenka, after doing the enteprise analysis and after running some pilot projects I presented the impact analysis of the use of three models. SAFe, LeSS and DaD. Because my duties I presented it with a personal recommendation creating my own analysis about the future of those frameworks, The good thing for me is that top management choose according my impact analysis. So, they exactly know the risk that each alternative have. Then, I am going to do my job with all "cards laying on the table". I am happy to help the organization to be successful with SAFe implementation, believe me. Is a new challenge for me.
Great:) that’s sound very good!! Saving Changes...
Lenka PincotChief of Staff to the CEO| Project Management InstituteParis, France
Sep 24, 2018 11:02 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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In my personal opinion, while I know that "impossible is nothing", the worst thing you can do is mixing both. In fact, SAFe is a "bag of cats" which is constanty changed and some of the changes are not consistent.
Agree. I think it would be none of that after a mix... Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Sep 24, 2018 9:07 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
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Sergio -
Forgive the small correction - DAD is not based on Scrum and in fact it eschews Scrum nomenclature. Unlike most other scaling framework, DAD draws from a large number of sources - RUP has heavily influenced its DNA which makes sense since Scott Ambler is an ex-IBM'er...
Kiron
You are welcome Kiron. You are right. My mistake. Saving Changes...
Thank you Kiron, could you please elaborate a bit more on the “it is not incremental”? What does that mean practically? E.g. when it comes to changes in the organization structure? Does it still make sense to do a pilot when implementing it?
What size of organization would you say can go with LeSS and when it’s too big for that?
Lenka -
SAFe ceremonies, roles and cadence cannot easily be introduced a piece at a time. Even in the Essential SAFe configuration, there's enough of a change being introduced to make it feel like a revolution. You could pilot it, but it would have to be at the granularity of a department as the organizational changes might not be feasible for just a single product.
I have a hard time seeing LeSS scale well beyond a handful of teams working on a single product. They've taken a very simplistic approach of scaling up Scrum and my concern is that many of the orchestration activities (e.g. requirements alignment, solution alignment, organizational blocker management) which are needed to scale agile to an enterprise context are no covered in any detail.
The limited partner support is also a concern to me - scaled agile requires a fair bit of external support in the early days and if there are limited practitioners in the local area, that could be a big blocker.
Kiron
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1 reply by Lenka Pincot
Sep 24, 2018 1:58 PM
Lenka Pincot
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Thanks for the details. You mentioned also the less support available for LeSS. That's very relevant comment when making a decision which one to apply.
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