Stelian ROMANProject Manager| MicroSafetyCarlingford, New South Wales, Australia
Anyone using an Agile methodology/framework developed for generic Project Management?
I am looking for a methodology/framework that is not software oriented and has a budget management component.
I know most of the 'famous' Agile frameworks (XP, Scrum, LeSS, SAFe, Kanban...), please read the requirements:
1) Not Software Development oriented
2) Can manage financials Saving Changes...
o a side note, from Lean point if view assigning and tracking cost at a feature level is a waste.
Associating value or costs at a feature level is no different than detailed cost estimation at a work package level in a traditional approach. The benefit of doing this is that we can track value delivered and provide some objectivity (as a factor in WSJF) to prioritizing the backlog.
In the absence of a PM, the mechanics of processing the actual costs would be done by a finance role (e.g. finance analyst) supporting the product or in smaller shops might be done by the PO themselves.
Kiron
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1 reply by Stelian ROMAN
Dec 20, 2018 4:06 PM
Stelian ROMAN
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@kiron, I agree. When I mentioned waste I was thinking at the level of decomposition. The same thinking applies to estimation. I've seen Scrum teams spending more time in estimation and costing than working on the product.
Saving Changes...
Deepesh RammoorthyICT Project Manager ( PMP®AgilePM®Certified ScrumMaster® (CSM®))| Australian Red Cross Blood ServiceTarneit, Vic, Australia
DSDM or AgilePM as its called these days (I just got qualified :) ) uses the best practices of all the 'famous' Agile frameworks (XP, Scrum, LeSS, SAFe, Kanban...). But it does define Project Management roles separate from the Development team roles and defines the PM as a Servant leader when it comes to managing the Development Time Boxes. There is nothing specific in DSDM about Financial management. In DSDM , Cost , Time and Quality are fixed and features are variable.
You still can use all what you have learnt and used as part of PMBOK Cost Management Knowledge area to run your agile Project .
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2 replies by Stelian ROMAN
Dec 20, 2018 4:15 PM
Stelian ROMAN
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As I mentioned before I don't consider DSDM an Agile framework. My question was about an Agile framework with a financial management component. I am not interested in non agile frameworks with financial management. PMBoK is more than enough.
On a side note I believe that the concept of Agile PM is a nonsense in itself. A Project Manager should be able to use ANY practice or framework. I don't see too much difference between DSDM and another famous structured Agile 'methodology' called SBoK. Most of the (real) Project Managers that I worked with had no certification.
Dec 20, 2018 4:18 PM
Stelian ROMAN
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Second side note: A project is defined by Scope, Time and budget. Quality was added to the 'iron triangle' to justify a role (tester) that was initially created for poor developers to take them out of the creation process. from the project point of view quality is part of the scope.
Saving Changes...
Stelian ROMANProject Manager| MicroSafetyCarlingford, New South Wales, Australia
Dec 19, 2018 7:58 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
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Associating value or costs at a feature level is no different than detailed cost estimation at a work package level in a traditional approach. The benefit of doing this is that we can track value delivered and provide some objectivity (as a factor in WSJF) to prioritizing the backlog.
In the absence of a PM, the mechanics of processing the actual costs would be done by a finance role (e.g. finance analyst) supporting the product or in smaller shops might be done by the PO themselves.
Kiron
@kiron, I agree. When I mentioned waste I was thinking at the level of decomposition. The same thinking applies to estimation. I've seen Scrum teams spending more time in estimation and costing than working on the product. Saving Changes...
Stelian ROMANProject Manager| MicroSafetyCarlingford, New South Wales, Australia
Dec 20, 2018 12:29 AM
Replying to Deepesh Rammoorthy
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DSDM or AgilePM as its called these days (I just got qualified :) ) uses the best practices of all the 'famous' Agile frameworks (XP, Scrum, LeSS, SAFe, Kanban...). But it does define Project Management roles separate from the Development team roles and defines the PM as a Servant leader when it comes to managing the Development Time Boxes. There is nothing specific in DSDM about Financial management. In DSDM , Cost , Time and Quality are fixed and features are variable.
You still can use all what you have learnt and used as part of PMBOK Cost Management Knowledge area to run your agile Project .
As I mentioned before I don't consider DSDM an Agile framework. My question was about an Agile framework with a financial management component. I am not interested in non agile frameworks with financial management. PMBoK is more than enough.
On a side note I believe that the concept of Agile PM is a nonsense in itself. A Project Manager should be able to use ANY practice or framework. I don't see too much difference between DSDM and another famous structured Agile 'methodology' called SBoK. Most of the (real) Project Managers that I worked with had no certification. Saving Changes...
Stelian ROMANProject Manager| MicroSafetyCarlingford, New South Wales, Australia
Dec 20, 2018 12:29 AM
Replying to Deepesh Rammoorthy
...
DSDM or AgilePM as its called these days (I just got qualified :) ) uses the best practices of all the 'famous' Agile frameworks (XP, Scrum, LeSS, SAFe, Kanban...). But it does define Project Management roles separate from the Development team roles and defines the PM as a Servant leader when it comes to managing the Development Time Boxes. There is nothing specific in DSDM about Financial management. In DSDM , Cost , Time and Quality are fixed and features are variable.
You still can use all what you have learnt and used as part of PMBOK Cost Management Knowledge area to run your agile Project .
Second side note: A project is defined by Scope, Time and budget. Quality was added to the 'iron triangle' to justify a role (tester) that was initially created for poor developers to take them out of the creation process. from the project point of view quality is part of the scope.
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1 reply by Deepesh Rammoorthy
Dec 20, 2018 5:26 PM
Deepesh Rammoorthy
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Oh you just opened a can of worms there Stelian :)
Quality is of prime importance and yes, as part of your scope you do need to deliver a product that is of the quality agreed with the customer and in most cases , confirms to some regulatory or organizational standards but I fully support it being the fourth quadrant and the iron triangle being made into a square.
Project Manager should not be allowed to release a product that does not meet quality standards even though they may deliver in time , on budget and may have delivered all the features (Scope) expected of the product.
I may have delivered the web page that does exactly what its supposed to do e.g. Let me buy a product using a shopping cart . However, if the font is too big, if the User Interface is not user friendly at all , does not confirm to my non -functional requirements, that system is fit for the rubbish bin.
Saving Changes...
Deepesh RammoorthyICT Project Manager ( PMP®AgilePM®Certified ScrumMaster® (CSM®))| Australian Red Cross Blood ServiceTarneit, Vic, Australia
I really like the common sense approach to DSDM... if I were you I wouldn't be so rigid about my dislike for any particular framework, but rather try to adapt the best of everything to my day to day work. I think Finance should be a well planned endeavor and I guess it's the very reason that adaptive life cycles have conveniently ignored them. Saving Changes...
Deepesh RammoorthyICT Project Manager ( PMP®AgilePM®Certified ScrumMaster® (CSM®))| Australian Red Cross Blood ServiceTarneit, Vic, Australia
Dec 20, 2018 4:18 PM
Replying to Stelian ROMAN
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Second side note: A project is defined by Scope, Time and budget. Quality was added to the 'iron triangle' to justify a role (tester) that was initially created for poor developers to take them out of the creation process. from the project point of view quality is part of the scope.
Oh you just opened a can of worms there Stelian :)
Quality is of prime importance and yes, as part of your scope you do need to deliver a product that is of the quality agreed with the customer and in most cases , confirms to some regulatory or organizational standards but I fully support it being the fourth quadrant and the iron triangle being made into a square.
Project Manager should not be allowed to release a product that does not meet quality standards even though they may deliver in time , on budget and may have delivered all the features (Scope) expected of the product.
I may have delivered the web page that does exactly what its supposed to do e.g. Let me buy a product using a shopping cart . However, if the font is too big, if the User Interface is not user friendly at all , does not confirm to my non -functional requirements, that system is fit for the rubbish bin. Saving Changes...
Stelian ROMANProject Manager| MicroSafetyCarlingford, New South Wales, Australia
I don't "dislike' DSDM, I don't consider that it is Agile. I do dislike certifications as the main revenue stream for an organisation.
I am not the only one that doesn't believe that DSDM is not an Agile framework. Have a look at the state of Agile Report. DSDM is not even mentioned. Saving Changes...
