Project Management

Please login or join to subscribe to this thread

What is coming after agile?

linkedin twitter facebook   Agile   Change Management   Estimating   Leadership   Manufacturing  
avatar
Mario Coquillat Project, Program and Portfolio consultant, mentor and trainer| CoquillatPM San Pedro Del Pinatar, Murcia, Spain
In an agile conference a speaker explained his view about what is coming after "agile"....and he said "Resilience, as a strategy to absorb disruptive changes in the industry"

Changes are going to be so fast than even with an adaptative approach you´re not going to be able to react to them.

Your insights would be much appreciated.
Sort By:
< 1 2 3 4 >
avatar
Sergio Luis Conte Helping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based Organizations Buenos Aires, Argentina
Dec 18, 2018 9:15 PM
Replying to Keith Novak
...
Sergio - I completely agree that answers lie in the physics and philosophy, and that is the root of why I think the role of PM will be impacted more as companies undergo digital transformations.

In both PM and engineering we break the problem down into the smallest unit we want to deal with, like a task. Computational ability has grown at an incredible rate allowing things never before possible describing the interaction of many finite parts. While PMs aren't going to be all data scientists, I think the data scientists will build tools which allow PMs to more accurately describe the physics of how our tasks interact with each other, and PMs will find different ways to use those tools efficiently.

We will still care about the same basic physics qualities of the solution like time vs. energy or schedule vs. cost, but just like going from paper to electronic forms, highly integrated information sources will require different organizational methods.
Good to read your comments @Keith. By the way, relating what you stated about computational capabilities, I am working from 1986 (where I presented a paper that was taken as part of today called blockchain) with AI and today with quantum computing where I am researching how to simulate consciousness with computers using AI plus quantum relating to establish organizational consciousness and making prospective analysis. Relating to data, what today is called "big data" is just a layer between a knowledge management system (system is not software system) where the basement is data warehousing environments. Nothing new for ancient people like me (hehehehe) due to it came from 1990. There lot of works outside there about what you stated related to data. I worked on that trying to not "reinvent the wheel" into each project. All these stuff is simple to understand, nobody need to be a scientists. The problem, in my personal opinion, is when people and organizations (sometimes the PMI take this path) are tying to sell things that contributes to general confusion (for example, two topics I have the opportunity to work from the genesis: Agile and business analsysis). It is amazing to see things like people including those that have certifications say things like "PMI Methodology" or the answers getting from them when you ask "what is project management?" / "what is a project manager?".
avatar
Stelian ROMAN Project Manager| MicroSafety Carlingford, New South Wales, Australia
Dec 18, 2018 7:14 PM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
...
What some people do not understand is things like Agile are outside there from long time ago and it has nothing to be with predictive or adaptive. In fact, Agile can be used with predictive. Problem is the misunderstanding about Agile outside there. More problem is when people create new buzzwords for things that exists from long time ago as resilence. In fact, i wrote an article that was published by the PMI and the IIBA relating change and Newton´s Laws. My recommendation is not buying this type of things. My recommendation is going to the basement, search about physic and philosophy because the foundation is there.
Segio, finally I found some papers published by that group in 90s, including a thesis,It's a pity that the Agile group was dismantled although I am sure that the research was used later in the development of the 'new' Agile frameworks.
Agile started in manufacturing, for the simple reason that at that scale any minor improvement pays off big.
As you said many Agile practices are not new, iterative and incremental software development was used in 1957 (B Dimsdale, G Weinberg) and kanban was used in manufacturing for decades before it was 'invented' by someone working at Motorola. I remember one of your posts where you said that Agile started as a response/replacement to Lean. It looks like the future of Agile is Lean. Kanban and DevOps are just few of the arguments. DevOps, listed as an Agile practice, fails all the Agile values: doesn't promote collaboration, relies on tools, targets standardisation rather than embracing change etc.After the fist wave of early adopters in software companies I've seen Agile/Scrum tolerated by PMOs. In the last 2-5 years it become trendy to be Agile but most of the implementations are very planned and formal frameworks. Technical teams are moving towardds DevOp, Kanban, automation etc. that's why I believe that the future Agile is a Lean Waterfall,
...
1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Dec 19, 2018 5:58 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
...
Here my comments that I can sustain, but are just my comments. DevOps has no sense. DevOps is a new buzzword used to sell something that name in other way the same problem that presists from 1956 up to date: configuration management. I am saying that no matter I am in charge to implement SAFe (other thing with no sense) and DevOps in my actual work place. Obviously, I was part of the decision to implement that and I have put my arguments (with demostration and without subjectivity) on the table but no matter that the company decided to go forward, Regarding the group, it was not dismantled. The endeavor ends as planned and the deliverable were created taking into account that was a mix between theory and practice (the most important companies in the world put in practice the theory in real world projects). Most of the deliverables they are inside the Rick Dove´s book "Response Ability" and inside the Rick Dove´s website (most of them with some kind of adaptation from Rick). Today, people that created the Buisness Agility Manifesto (I have collaborated on that) took those ideas (https://busagilitymanifesto.org/). Lean is not Agile. Lean gives flexibility while Agile gives agility which are not the same (I am not saying one is better than other. In fact, in my actual work place, while we transformed the whole enterprise to Agile we are using Lean too, mainly in manufacturing).
avatar
Sergio Luis Conte Helping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based Organizations Buenos Aires, Argentina
Dec 19, 2018 5:29 AM
Replying to Stelian ROMAN
...
Segio, finally I found some papers published by that group in 90s, including a thesis,It's a pity that the Agile group was dismantled although I am sure that the research was used later in the development of the 'new' Agile frameworks.
Agile started in manufacturing, for the simple reason that at that scale any minor improvement pays off big.
As you said many Agile practices are not new, iterative and incremental software development was used in 1957 (B Dimsdale, G Weinberg) and kanban was used in manufacturing for decades before it was 'invented' by someone working at Motorola. I remember one of your posts where you said that Agile started as a response/replacement to Lean. It looks like the future of Agile is Lean. Kanban and DevOps are just few of the arguments. DevOps, listed as an Agile practice, fails all the Agile values: doesn't promote collaboration, relies on tools, targets standardisation rather than embracing change etc.After the fist wave of early adopters in software companies I've seen Agile/Scrum tolerated by PMOs. In the last 2-5 years it become trendy to be Agile but most of the implementations are very planned and formal frameworks. Technical teams are moving towardds DevOp, Kanban, automation etc. that's why I believe that the future Agile is a Lean Waterfall,
Here my comments that I can sustain, but are just my comments. DevOps has no sense. DevOps is a new buzzword used to sell something that name in other way the same problem that presists from 1956 up to date: configuration management. I am saying that no matter I am in charge to implement SAFe (other thing with no sense) and DevOps in my actual work place. Obviously, I was part of the decision to implement that and I have put my arguments (with demostration and without subjectivity) on the table but no matter that the company decided to go forward, Regarding the group, it was not dismantled. The endeavor ends as planned and the deliverable were created taking into account that was a mix between theory and practice (the most important companies in the world put in practice the theory in real world projects). Most of the deliverables they are inside the Rick Dove´s book "Response Ability" and inside the Rick Dove´s website (most of them with some kind of adaptation from Rick). Today, people that created the Buisness Agility Manifesto (I have collaborated on that) took those ideas (https://busagilitymanifesto.org/). Lean is not Agile. Lean gives flexibility while Agile gives agility which are not the same (I am not saying one is better than other. In fact, in my actual work place, while we transformed the whole enterprise to Agile we are using Lean too, mainly in manufacturing).
avatar
Mario Coquillat Project, Program and Portfolio consultant, mentor and trainer| CoquillatPM San Pedro Del Pinatar, Murcia, Spain
Dec 18, 2018 4:13 PM
Replying to Stelian ROMAN
...
It's pretty obvious: Lean. DevOps, Kanban... although initially Agile was a replacement for Lean. It didn't work :)
Thanks for your insight. I´m not sure that Devops or Kanban are not a subset of Agile.

Lean is different, it is the origin and Agile is a subset of it.
avatar
Mario Coquillat Project, Program and Portfolio consultant, mentor and trainer| CoquillatPM San Pedro Del Pinatar, Murcia, Spain
Dec 18, 2018 4:46 PM
Replying to Keith Novak
...
The digital age will off a lot of opportunities for new and disruptive technology insertion. What we manage today with a lot of different federated documents and files, are starting to become more integrated. This changes the way information is managed.

Once you build the intelligent integrated network of information there are really fascinating opportunities for how to use the data. 3 examples that immediately come to mind relevant to PM are:

- The ability for algorithms to detect patterns and thus enable reusing components of prior project plans rather than building them from scratch.

- The ability to use genetic algorithms to optimize organizations, schedules, architectures, and other things to rapidly converge on solutions that would have been impossible if not impractical in prior times.

- The ability to use real time information to understand current performance, and predict future outcomes.
Thanks for your insight. I see you´re talking about AI and machine learning.

In Los Angeles PMI Global Congress there was a speech about it and it was interesting.

People will focus more in strategy and stakeholder management and machines would manage the rest. We´ll see impact in 20-30 years.
...
1 reply by Keith Novak
Dec 19, 2018 8:19 PM
Keith Novak
...
I think the AI and machine learning comes later. In the nearer term, I think we will see our data sources more tightly integrated.

Project planning and engineering have gone from written down on paper, to managed in programs, to managed in integrated databases in recent history. Things like blockchains that Sergio touched on, rely on algorithms that collect and integrate different pieces of data and know how to assemble them in the right order. That can take a lot of manual work away from a PM simply collecting and organizing different bits of information.

Where the PM today has a schedule separate from the cost estimate and the tasks, technology can lump those together for us. We can have different views of the data, like the schedule view, but the ability to manage the who, what, when, how, and how much, all together for each planning step will give us the ability to use a more modular approach to building complex plans. How we combine those data modules into a complete plan will be necessarily different, just like going from paper ledgers to spreadsheets changed things.

I think that just like how when word processors took the place of typewriters and the office roles changed, as the different data sources we already use get more tightly integrated, the process for how we build and manage plans will also change significantly.
avatar
Mario Coquillat Project, Program and Portfolio consultant, mentor and trainer| CoquillatPM San Pedro Del Pinatar, Murcia, Spain
Dec 18, 2018 7:14 PM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
...
What some people do not understand is things like Agile are outside there from long time ago and it has nothing to be with predictive or adaptive. In fact, Agile can be used with predictive. Problem is the misunderstanding about Agile outside there. More problem is when people create new buzzwords for things that exists from long time ago as resilence. In fact, i wrote an article that was published by the PMI and the IIBA relating change and Newton´s Laws. My recommendation is not buying this type of things. My recommendation is going to the basement, search about physic and philosophy because the foundation is there.
Totally agree. I´m using a hybrid approach to manage projects in aeronautic sector.

"Resilience" is a term you can find from 2009 in ISO 31000 "Risk management - Principles and guides" so it´s not new for me. Somebody is looking for next business....
avatar
Thomas Walenta Global Project Economy Expert Hackenheim, Germany
Interesting discussion.
Going back to the question about thoughts on resilience.
Yes, it is a word defined in biology and business many years ago. Sometimes and especially for the young generation it is good to repeat and recover old wisdom though, not to create confusion, but awareness and options.
When asked about what would be the next thing (for project management, for business?), I think we all strive to survive and sustain, as individuals and organizations. Agile and adaptability are helpful strategies to be prepared for increased changes. Resilience includes adaptability, according to this article, and could indeed be the next idea to be aware of.
https://www.bcg.com/publications/2017/glob...ed-biology.aspx
...
1 reply by Mario Coquillat
Dec 20, 2018 1:30 PM
Mario Coquillat
...
Thanks for your insight Thomas. Nature is wisdom.
avatar
Keith Novak Tukwila, Wa, United States
Dec 19, 2018 6:12 AM
Replying to Mario Coquillat
...
Thanks for your insight. I see you´re talking about AI and machine learning.

In Los Angeles PMI Global Congress there was a speech about it and it was interesting.

People will focus more in strategy and stakeholder management and machines would manage the rest. We´ll see impact in 20-30 years.
I think the AI and machine learning comes later. In the nearer term, I think we will see our data sources more tightly integrated.

Project planning and engineering have gone from written down on paper, to managed in programs, to managed in integrated databases in recent history. Things like blockchains that Sergio touched on, rely on algorithms that collect and integrate different pieces of data and know how to assemble them in the right order. That can take a lot of manual work away from a PM simply collecting and organizing different bits of information.

Where the PM today has a schedule separate from the cost estimate and the tasks, technology can lump those together for us. We can have different views of the data, like the schedule view, but the ability to manage the who, what, when, how, and how much, all together for each planning step will give us the ability to use a more modular approach to building complex plans. How we combine those data modules into a complete plan will be necessarily different, just like going from paper ledgers to spreadsheets changed things.

I think that just like how when word processors took the place of typewriters and the office roles changed, as the different data sources we already use get more tightly integrated, the process for how we build and manage plans will also change significantly.
...
1 reply by Mario Coquillat
Dec 20, 2018 1:28 PM
Mario Coquillat
...
You´re right. First step is about integration & automation.

Streamlining and automating tasks through integration and process automation.
avatar
Mario Coquillat Project, Program and Portfolio consultant, mentor and trainer| CoquillatPM San Pedro Del Pinatar, Murcia, Spain
Dec 19, 2018 8:19 PM
Replying to Keith Novak
...
I think the AI and machine learning comes later. In the nearer term, I think we will see our data sources more tightly integrated.

Project planning and engineering have gone from written down on paper, to managed in programs, to managed in integrated databases in recent history. Things like blockchains that Sergio touched on, rely on algorithms that collect and integrate different pieces of data and know how to assemble them in the right order. That can take a lot of manual work away from a PM simply collecting and organizing different bits of information.

Where the PM today has a schedule separate from the cost estimate and the tasks, technology can lump those together for us. We can have different views of the data, like the schedule view, but the ability to manage the who, what, when, how, and how much, all together for each planning step will give us the ability to use a more modular approach to building complex plans. How we combine those data modules into a complete plan will be necessarily different, just like going from paper ledgers to spreadsheets changed things.

I think that just like how when word processors took the place of typewriters and the office roles changed, as the different data sources we already use get more tightly integrated, the process for how we build and manage plans will also change significantly.
You´re right. First step is about integration & automation.

Streamlining and automating tasks through integration and process automation.
...
1 reply by Stelian ROMAN
Dec 20, 2018 3:40 PM
Stelian ROMAN
...
Integration and automation are not new, they are the essence of Lean SIx SIgma and are done in manufacturing for more than 100 years. Automation doesn't mean computers. For the younger generation it is good to know that the first media to store data (punch cards) was not invented for computers but for manufacturing, to automate the weaving.
It is interested that most of 'post Agile' proposals are a sort of back to the future...
'Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.'
avatar
Mario Coquillat Project, Program and Portfolio consultant, mentor and trainer| CoquillatPM San Pedro Del Pinatar, Murcia, Spain
Dec 19, 2018 7:56 AM
Replying to Thomas Walenta
...
Interesting discussion.
Going back to the question about thoughts on resilience.
Yes, it is a word defined in biology and business many years ago. Sometimes and especially for the young generation it is good to repeat and recover old wisdom though, not to create confusion, but awareness and options.
When asked about what would be the next thing (for project management, for business?), I think we all strive to survive and sustain, as individuals and organizations. Agile and adaptability are helpful strategies to be prepared for increased changes. Resilience includes adaptability, according to this article, and could indeed be the next idea to be aware of.
https://www.bcg.com/publications/2017/glob...ed-biology.aspx
Thanks for your insight Thomas. Nature is wisdom.
< 1 2 3 4 >

Please login or join to reply

Content ID:
ADVERTISEMENTS

I'm lactose intolerent. I have no patience for lactose and I won't stand for it.

- Jerry Seinfeld

ADVERTISEMENT

Sponsors