Adrian, please let me some comment. Agile is not about to use a framework (Scrum) or a method. Agile is not about to user user stories. You can use what best fits. Unfortunatelly (and I am not write the following because your comment) people do not know about Scrum, just to take an example. There is no line into Scrum that said people have to use User Stories, Kanban, Story Point, etc. So, when people take the Scrum Guide will find that the frameworkd can be filled with any tool and technique that best fit for the initiative. That is because in my actual work place we are selected to use Scrum for IT and infraestructure projects. In fact, we are in the process to implement SAFe and DevOps.And here is where I am fully aligned with your comment regarding the need to have the organization ready before to use Agile into any initiative. That´s something I can not make people understand when I was part of the group that have decided the strategy in my actual work place. Now, I am in charge of it. God Sava Me....hehehehehe
Hello Sergio Luis Conte,
I am trying to understand how Scrum fits in for Infrastructure projects. I delivered software development projects using the Scrum framework. But how can we use it for infrastructure projects.
I presume Kanban can still be used for an infrastructure project.
Regards
O.Patanjali Sastry
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2 replies by Sergio Luis Conte and Stelian ROMAN
Apr 16, 2019 4:02 PM
Sergio Luis Conte
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Kanban is not a method. Is just a tool that you can use with every life cyle model and process, including predictive/waterfall. Scrum can be used into infraestructure projects as-is. I did not understand, sorry, why not.
Apr 17, 2019 4:22 AM
Stelian ROMAN
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Kanban is a Lean Six Sigma technique used in manufacturing for over 60 years. It is part of the visual factory concept and was designed for one way processes. It doesn't support iterative delivery.
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Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Apr 16, 2019 11:21 AM
Replying to PATANJALI SASTRY ORUGANTI
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Hello Sergio Luis Conte,
I am trying to understand how Scrum fits in for Infrastructure projects. I delivered software development projects using the Scrum framework. But how can we use it for infrastructure projects.
I presume Kanban can still be used for an infrastructure project.
Regards
O.Patanjali Sastry
Kanban is not a method. Is just a tool that you can use with every life cyle model and process, including predictive/waterfall. Scrum can be used into infraestructure projects as-is. I did not understand, sorry, why not. Saving Changes...
Stelian ROMANProject Manager| MicroSafetyCarlingford, New South Wales, Australia
Apr 16, 2019 10:16 AM
Replying to John Albaugh
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Stelian,
Kanban and Lean are absolutely Agile methodologies, they're just not Scrum. Agile also doesn't require the scope to change or have unclear requirements - Agile just helps when those two conditions are present.
For your specific example of changing Cloud hosting platforms you could run that a couple of ways:
1) Scrum - make each app migration be an Epic and have aspects of configuration and testing be the stories that populate the backlog. If you use JIRA then a Release would comprise of x number of apps moving to the new platform. This method is preferred if you have a dedicated team.
2) Kanban - similar to scrum in that the configuration and testing steps are individual stories and a Theme or Epic would be the app but rather than running in timeboxed Sprints and Releases you only have to adhere to your ITIL Release calendar when apps are migrated. This method should work better if you don't have a dedicated team.
3) Modified Lean/Iterative - In test, migrate one app over to the new platform and document along the way what things need to be tweaked and that documentation populates your backlog/checklist for other apps as well as your migration plan in Prod. Depending on the types of apps (criticality) this could be the fastest way to migrate to the new platform. It can also be a jump starter to the other two methods if the team is struggling with populating the backlog because of too many unknowns. This method is not recommended if you have business or health critical apps.
Sorry John. I have to agree that we disagree on "Kanban and Lean are absolutely Agile methodologies"
Lean Six Sigma was a science when Agile was just an emerging approach. According to some practitioners Agile is a response to Lean. Kanban is just one of the many Lean practices to eliminate waste. One of the most important reasons to adopt Agile is to embrace change (see value 4 in the Agile Manifesto). In Lean the objective is to minimise or eliminate change usually by process standardisation. We can take the discussion on private if you are interested.
Thank you for your answer but it is not what I am looking for.
1. That example is not an Agile project. It is a phased approach where each application is treated as a phase of the project. There is no change based on feedback from users and there is a separate testing phase that make the whole approach a waterfall. Epic is not related to Scrum it is an XP concept.
2. Kanban has nothing similar with Scrum. It is a practice rather than a framework with defined roles, events etc. Stories, I assume that you speak about User Stories is another XP concept. ITIL is hardly an Agile framework. It is a very formal and planned approach to production release.
3. Lean, like Agile is a concept, not a methodology or a framework. Iterative delivery, not that it is the case when a whole application is migrated, is a practice used since 1950. It is used by Agile teams, usually in combination incremental delivery but is not exclusive to Agile. Iterative means that every iteration you are changing something, which again is not the case in applications migration. Saving Changes...
Stelian ROMANProject Manager| MicroSafetyCarlingford, New South Wales, Australia
Apr 16, 2019 9:47 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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Agile is not about values or principles. That is agile implementation for software if the Manifesto is following. About practices, any practice that best fit for the initiative can be used to achive Agile definition to gain into agility. As I mentioned, we are using Scrum framework then we have fill it up with the tools and techniques that best fit for our reality and environment.
Sergio, I personally agree with you but there is a whole community out there that believe that Agile started with AM and it is described by 4 values and 12 principles.
My view is that Agile is an attribute and any framework or methodology can be agile to a certain degree.
I also agree that Scrum, as the guide mentioned, can be augmented with other practices, as long as the roles and events are kept unchanged. I was looking for real examples of projects rather than an academic discussion.
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Apr 17, 2019 5:18 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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From my side is not an academic discussion. As I mentioned we are using Scrum.
Saving Changes...
Khai Ng.IT PMO | IT Project Manager| TTGROUPHanoi, Viet Nam
IT infrastructure project will be costly if redo and we do not welcome change. We used a hybird approach, Agile/Scrum is just for design phase, implementation phase is followed by using traditional/predictive approach.
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1 reply by Stelian ROMAN
Apr 17, 2019 4:41 AM
Stelian ROMAN
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Interesting. I will be very surprised if you really use Scrum for the design phase. I can't see the need for sprints, planning, retrospectives and reviews. I also can't believe that you have adaily stand-up with the development team. It is also pretty hard to see the potentially shippable increments that are delivered at the end of each sprint.
Saving Changes...
Stelian ROMANProject Manager| MicroSafetyCarlingford, New South Wales, Australia
Apr 16, 2019 11:21 AM
Replying to PATANJALI SASTRY ORUGANTI
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Hello Sergio Luis Conte,
I am trying to understand how Scrum fits in for Infrastructure projects. I delivered software development projects using the Scrum framework. But how can we use it for infrastructure projects.
I presume Kanban can still be used for an infrastructure project.
Regards
O.Patanjali Sastry
Kanban is a Lean Six Sigma technique used in manufacturing for over 60 years. It is part of the visual factory concept and was designed for one way processes. It doesn't support iterative delivery. Saving Changes...
Stelian ROMANProject Manager| MicroSafetyCarlingford, New South Wales, Australia
Apr 17, 2019 2:43 AM
Replying to Khai Ng.
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IT infrastructure project will be costly if redo and we do not welcome change. We used a hybird approach, Agile/Scrum is just for design phase, implementation phase is followed by using traditional/predictive approach.
Interesting. I will be very surprised if you really use Scrum for the design phase. I can't see the need for sprints, planning, retrospectives and reviews. I also can't believe that you have adaily stand-up with the development team. It is also pretty hard to see the potentially shippable increments that are delivered at the end of each sprint. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Apr 17, 2019 1:57 AM
Replying to Stelian ROMAN
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Sergio, I personally agree with you but there is a whole community out there that believe that Agile started with AM and it is described by 4 values and 12 principles.
My view is that Agile is an attribute and any framework or methodology can be agile to a certain degree.
I also agree that Scrum, as the guide mentioned, can be augmented with other practices, as long as the roles and events are kept unchanged. I was looking for real examples of projects rather than an academic discussion.
From my side is not an academic discussion. As I mentioned we are using Scrum. Saving Changes...
So I’m an Agile coach and work with “complex” work, that is people, software design and development, and such. My host brother used to work in building computing centers. That is highly “complicated” work. General's worth it. Saving Changes...