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What is the basic difference between SAFe and LeSS frameworks in Agile and when to apply them?

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Gaurav Dhooper Assistant Vice President| Genpact Noida, U.P., India
Applicability and differences between SAFe and LeSS frameworks in Agile
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Sergio Luis Conte Helping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based Organizations Buenos Aires, Argentina
Just to comment, I am leading the implementation of SAFe in my current work. Before decide which framework apply we test most of them to understand which best fit in our enteprise architecture. About the differences my recommendation is going to the documentation or analysis you can find out there. At the end, if you do not test them you will not understand the diference, believe me. My last words are: if you have to scale agile then you have implemted agile in the wrong way in the begining or you are buying a silver bullet. In my case, in my actual work place, where I led the transformation to agile that took 3 years (we are in the last phase) I will not be able to convince to my people that we are buying a silver bullet, to be honest.
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1 reply by Gaurav Dhooper
May 10, 2019 7:06 AM
Gaurav Dhooper
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Great reply Sergio. Got the answer. But from your perspective is there any limit of scaling up with LeSS as compared to SAFe.
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Gaurav Dhooper Assistant Vice President| Genpact Noida, U.P., India
May 10, 2019 5:32 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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Just to comment, I am leading the implementation of SAFe in my current work. Before decide which framework apply we test most of them to understand which best fit in our enteprise architecture. About the differences my recommendation is going to the documentation or analysis you can find out there. At the end, if you do not test them you will not understand the diference, believe me. My last words are: if you have to scale agile then you have implemted agile in the wrong way in the begining or you are buying a silver bullet. In my case, in my actual work place, where I led the transformation to agile that took 3 years (we are in the last phase) I will not be able to convince to my people that we are buying a silver bullet, to be honest.
Great reply Sergio. Got the answer. But from your perspective is there any limit of scaling up with LeSS as compared to SAFe.
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
May 10, 2019 7:20 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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There is no limit. Most of the companies choose SAFe becuase it seems more "portable" from current structures (if you have an architecture based on portfolio/program/project management) than LeSS.
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Sergio Luis Conte Helping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based Organizations Buenos Aires, Argentina
May 10, 2019 7:06 AM
Replying to Gaurav Dhooper
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Great reply Sergio. Got the answer. But from your perspective is there any limit of scaling up with LeSS as compared to SAFe.
There is no limit. Most of the companies choose SAFe becuase it seems more "portable" from current structures (if you have an architecture based on portfolio/program/project management) than LeSS.
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1 reply by Gaurav Dhooper
May 10, 2019 10:14 AM
Gaurav Dhooper
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Thanks Sergio for clarifying this.
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Wade Harshman Scrum Master| GDIT Indianapolis, In, United States
Gaurav, an over simplified answer is that LeSS scales up and SAFe flows down.

LeSS is just Scrum applied to multiple teams working on the same product. It's very similar to Nexus, which was developed by Ken Schwaber, one of the co-creators of Scrum. If your organization is struggling with Scrum, it will struggle with LeSS. But LeSS also focuses on experimentation to adjust over time, which makes it more flexible.
https://less.works/

By contrast, SAFe is a more rigid structure with many pre-defined roles and ceremonies (depending on which version of SAFe you learn). Some organizations are more comfortable with SAFe because it feels more like a traditional organizational structure.
https://www.scaledagileframework.com/

SAFe certainly seems to be the most popular framework right now. Among the alternatives, LeSS seems to be growing in popularity. There is a lot of money involved when you talk about training and certifications, so the discussion around scaled Agile can get ugly. Sergio is exactly right, though, that different organizations will need a different fit.
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1 reply by Gaurav Dhooper
May 10, 2019 10:13 AM
Gaurav Dhooper
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Really interesting feedback Wade. Thanks for clarifying the perspective.
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Abolfazl Yousefi Darestani Manager, Quality and Continuous Improvement| Hörmann-TNR Industrial Doors Newmarket, Ontario, Canada
Agree with Sergio
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Kiron Bondale Retired | Mentor| Retired Welland, Ontario, Canada
SAFe is the 300 (3000?) pound gorilla of scaled agile frameworks from a marketing perspective but is also very disruptive from a roles and practices standpoint. If your organization is willing to revolutionize things then SAFe might be the way to go.

SAFe builds on Scrum, but LeSS is much closer to Scrum as it just builds on the basic Scrum framework. It also provides a simpler model than the four (5?) patterns in SAFe. Your choice is LeSS or LeSS Huge.

As such, I'd say that if you are currently using Scrum effectively, LeSS might be a simpler evolution than SAFe but might not be the right fit for very large companies.

LeSS does have a less prescriptive approach than SAFe which is a good & bad situation from an autonomy and inconsistency perspective.

Kiron
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1 reply by Gaurav Dhooper
May 10, 2019 10:12 AM
Gaurav Dhooper
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Thanks Kiron. This is really clear and crisp feedback. I agree that SAFe is more prescriptive as compared to LeSS probably due to alignment with organisational structure and complexity.
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Gaurav Dhooper Assistant Vice President| Genpact Noida, U.P., India
May 10, 2019 8:33 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
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SAFe is the 300 (3000?) pound gorilla of scaled agile frameworks from a marketing perspective but is also very disruptive from a roles and practices standpoint. If your organization is willing to revolutionize things then SAFe might be the way to go.

SAFe builds on Scrum, but LeSS is much closer to Scrum as it just builds on the basic Scrum framework. It also provides a simpler model than the four (5?) patterns in SAFe. Your choice is LeSS or LeSS Huge.

As such, I'd say that if you are currently using Scrum effectively, LeSS might be a simpler evolution than SAFe but might not be the right fit for very large companies.

LeSS does have a less prescriptive approach than SAFe which is a good & bad situation from an autonomy and inconsistency perspective.

Kiron
Thanks Kiron. This is really clear and crisp feedback. I agree that SAFe is more prescriptive as compared to LeSS probably due to alignment with organisational structure and complexity.
avatar
Gaurav Dhooper Assistant Vice President| Genpact Noida, U.P., India
May 10, 2019 7:44 AM
Replying to Wade Harshman
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Gaurav, an over simplified answer is that LeSS scales up and SAFe flows down.

LeSS is just Scrum applied to multiple teams working on the same product. It's very similar to Nexus, which was developed by Ken Schwaber, one of the co-creators of Scrum. If your organization is struggling with Scrum, it will struggle with LeSS. But LeSS also focuses on experimentation to adjust over time, which makes it more flexible.
https://less.works/

By contrast, SAFe is a more rigid structure with many pre-defined roles and ceremonies (depending on which version of SAFe you learn). Some organizations are more comfortable with SAFe because it feels more like a traditional organizational structure.
https://www.scaledagileframework.com/

SAFe certainly seems to be the most popular framework right now. Among the alternatives, LeSS seems to be growing in popularity. There is a lot of money involved when you talk about training and certifications, so the discussion around scaled Agile can get ugly. Sergio is exactly right, though, that different organizations will need a different fit.
Really interesting feedback Wade. Thanks for clarifying the perspective.
avatar
Gaurav Dhooper Assistant Vice President| Genpact Noida, U.P., India
May 10, 2019 7:20 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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There is no limit. Most of the companies choose SAFe becuase it seems more "portable" from current structures (if you have an architecture based on portfolio/program/project management) than LeSS.
Thanks Sergio for clarifying this.
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
May 10, 2019 10:29 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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You are welcome.
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Sergio Luis Conte Helping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based Organizations Buenos Aires, Argentina
May 10, 2019 10:14 AM
Replying to Gaurav Dhooper
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Thanks Sergio for clarifying this.
You are welcome.
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