Project Management

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When teaching/learning project management, how do you structure your Project Schedule? By Phases or by Deliverables.

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George Lewis Program/Project Manager| DXC Technology Company Heredia, Costa Rica
The project schedule is organized in a logical way to indicate the work needed to create the required deliverables.

Our Project Schedules can be represented by phase or by deliverables.

When teaching or when learning what do you consider is the most logical way to create that project schedule, with some type Initiation phase all the way thru the closing phase of your project? or listing deliverables in the project schedule.

State your choise, Phases? or Deliverables?
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George Lewis Program/Project Manager| DXC Technology Company Heredia, Costa Rica
Sep 19, 2019 10:20 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
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George -

I teach what I practice so WBS by deliverables ideally, and schedule chronologically which usually means by phase.

Kiron
Kiron Thanks, my main concern is the project schedule which is what I finally needs them to understand.

So your answer is to ideally manage the project schedule by phases, is this correct?
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1 reply by Kiron Bondale
Sep 19, 2019 7:06 PM
Kiron Bondale
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I said to organize it chronologically which might mean by phases, but monitoring & controlling it doesn't necessarily mean looking at just the next few weeks of activities - a PM needs to apply system thinking to their projects...
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Keith Novak Tukwila, Wa, United States
When teaching, I think picking between one of the two is a flawed approach. Explaining the overall schedule and phases provides context. The deliverables are why we care about context. It's like providing an overview before diving into the details.
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1 reply by George Lewis
Sep 19, 2019 11:26 AM
George Lewis
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Hi Keith,
got your reply "Explaining the overall schedule and phases provides context"

there is a poll as well
https://www.projectmanagement.com/contentP...sted%20below%2E
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George Lewis Program/Project Manager| DXC Technology Company Heredia, Costa Rica
Sep 19, 2019 11:09 AM
Replying to Keith Novak
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When teaching, I think picking between one of the two is a flawed approach. Explaining the overall schedule and phases provides context. The deliverables are why we care about context. It's like providing an overview before diving into the details.
Hi Keith,
got your reply "Explaining the overall schedule and phases provides context"

there is a poll as well
https://www.projectmanagement.com/contentP...sted%20below%2E
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Steve Ratkaj Ontario, Canada
WBS/ Schedule
Level 0 = Project Name
Level 1 = Project Phases
Level 2 = Deliverables by Phase
Level 3 = Activities
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1 reply by George Lewis
Sep 19, 2019 12:27 PM
George Lewis
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Steve - your answer is clear, direct as well as specific.

Great communications skills :)

Can you please vote as well?
https://www.projectmanagement.com/contentP...sted%20below%2E
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George Lewis Program/Project Manager| DXC Technology Company Heredia, Costa Rica
Sep 19, 2019 12:09 PM
Replying to Steve Ratkaj
...
WBS/ Schedule
Level 0 = Project Name
Level 1 = Project Phases
Level 2 = Deliverables by Phase
Level 3 = Activities
Steve - your answer is clear, direct as well as specific.

Great communications skills :)

Can you please vote as well?
https://www.projectmanagement.com/contentP...sted%20below%2E
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Kiron Bondale Retired | Mentor| Retired Welland, Ontario, Canada
Sep 19, 2019 11:03 AM
Replying to George Lewis
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Kiron Thanks, my main concern is the project schedule which is what I finally needs them to understand.

So your answer is to ideally manage the project schedule by phases, is this correct?
I said to organize it chronologically which might mean by phases, but monitoring & controlling it doesn't necessarily mean looking at just the next few weeks of activities - a PM needs to apply system thinking to their projects...
...
1 reply by George Lewis
Sep 20, 2019 1:21 AM
George Lewis
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Kiron - thanks.

I agree as well.
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Deepesh Rammoorthy ICT Project Manager ( PMP®AgilePM®Certified ScrumMaster® (CSM®))| Australian Red Cross Blood Service Tarneit, Vic, Australia
Sep 19, 2019 12:17 AM
Replying to Deepesh Rammoorthy
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A quick visual representation of your scope in terms of WBS always helps .

The PMBOK says WBS should contain all of your project scope and having a WBS makes sure that "work does not slip through the cracks" .

Once you have , with the teams help, determined all the work to be achieved through WBS, you can break it into activities and then develop the schedule based on activities.

And yes , nothing stops you from having an overall MS Project schedule split by project phases because every phase will have scope items and work packages from the WBS that can be further decomposed into activities.

If you are running Agile then you can break down the project scope into user stories and run them through the sprints. You can represent the sprints in an MS Project schedule, should you have a requirement to do Management reporting . But this kind of sprint schedule will just be blocks of time . You really maintain your sprints and your user stories and your backlog within a software like JIRA
Hi George

Putting myself in a PM Student's shoes, I would create a skeleton schedule based on Project Phases [Initiation, Planning, Execution, M&C and Closure] and try to fit in the work packages from the WBS into each phase. For example, thinking traditional waterfall , I would need my requirements document and design to be completed in the planning phase.

scheduling by phases will give me a start date and and end date [or an approximation] for my project.
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1 reply by George Lewis
Sep 20, 2019 1:15 AM
George Lewis
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Deepesh - I'm glad to understood the PM Student's point of view, I think the same way. Once we are experienced PM's we can turn around and switch with either option, but for a student I agree with Steve where he states as below.

WBS/ Schedule
Level 0 = Project Name
Level 1 = Project Phases
Level 2 = Deliverables by Phase
Level 3 = Activities

Deepesh, thanks for your input and hope you had the chance to vote in the poll...

https://www.projectmanagement.com/contentP...sted%20below%2E
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Yousaf Khan PM Consultant| City of Toronto Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Each phase produces specific deliverables. So when teaching I use the same approach. Starting with the inputs and outputs during each phase and integrating the WBS in with input from the team/students.
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2 replies by George Lewis
Sep 20, 2019 8:19 AM
George Lewis
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Yousaf - I should have used this wording when phrasing the question... In simple words you've stated simple words and captured my thoughts... 'll use your thought and edit my question.

Each phase produces specific deliverables, so using a Phased approach (in project schedule) for STUDENTS might help them understand better.
With more experienced PMs another approach can be followed meaning a more delivery oriented approach at level 1 of the WBS.

But for teaching inexperienced students and as Deepesh recommends:
Project Schedule / WBS
Level 0 = Project Name
Level 1 = Project Phases
Level 2 = Deliverables by Phase
Level 3 = Deliverables Detailed or Work Packages
Sep 20, 2019 8:21 AM
George Lewis
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Yousaf - please vote this poll ... It would be good if you add your comments in the poll as well, very clear indications.

https://www.projectmanagement.com/contentP...sted%20below%2E
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George Lewis Program/Project Manager| DXC Technology Company Heredia, Costa Rica
Sep 19, 2019 7:20 PM
Replying to Deepesh Rammoorthy
...
Hi George

Putting myself in a PM Student's shoes, I would create a skeleton schedule based on Project Phases [Initiation, Planning, Execution, M&C and Closure] and try to fit in the work packages from the WBS into each phase. For example, thinking traditional waterfall , I would need my requirements document and design to be completed in the planning phase.

scheduling by phases will give me a start date and and end date [or an approximation] for my project.
Deepesh - I'm glad to understood the PM Student's point of view, I think the same way. Once we are experienced PM's we can turn around and switch with either option, but for a student I agree with Steve where he states as below.

WBS/ Schedule
Level 0 = Project Name
Level 1 = Project Phases
Level 2 = Deliverables by Phase
Level 3 = Activities

Deepesh, thanks for your input and hope you had the chance to vote in the poll...

https://www.projectmanagement.com/contentP...sted%20below%2E
avatar
George Lewis Program/Project Manager| DXC Technology Company Heredia, Costa Rica
Sep 19, 2019 7:06 PM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
...
I said to organize it chronologically which might mean by phases, but monitoring & controlling it doesn't necessarily mean looking at just the next few weeks of activities - a PM needs to apply system thinking to their projects...
Kiron - thanks.

I agree as well.
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