Priya PatraDelivery Director| Capgemini India Technology Services LtdMumbai, India
I have delivered the scope, deadlines within budget. I have documented the lessons learned and am ready for the next project ? Wait a second.. is my project a success ? What are the criteria that make a project a success? Is it only the iron triangle ? Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
May 31, 2020 7:40 AM
Replying to Thomas Walenta
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Sergio,
different perspectives, seems to be a bit cyclical though.
If customer satisfaction is achieved by reaching quality goals, what are quality goals in the end? Customer satisfaction.
We do the whole exercise not to create a good product but to create value for stakeholders.
The problem here is the definition of "value". At that is inside the quality theory. it is critical to understand the theory about quality if not it has no sense to discusse about some terms. First of all we are talking about project quality, not product quality. Project quality is defined from product quality and product quality definition is outside the project manager scope of work. Quality goal is not customer satisfaction. Projects contributes to customer satisfaction thanks to achieve project quality attributes on product and process.
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1 reply by Thomas Walenta
May 31, 2020 9:42 AM
Thomas Walenta
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Sergio
do not think there is only one theory or mental model about quality. I have come to see quality as primarily human centric , as a perception of people.
Similar to value. The same thing can be of value to some and seen as detrimental by others.
Is this not a basic assumption of agile mindset and of design thinking?
Saving Changes...
Thomas WalentaGlobal Project Economy ExpertHackenheim, Germany
May 31, 2020 9:03 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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The problem here is the definition of "value". At that is inside the quality theory. it is critical to understand the theory about quality if not it has no sense to discusse about some terms. First of all we are talking about project quality, not product quality. Project quality is defined from product quality and product quality definition is outside the project manager scope of work. Quality goal is not customer satisfaction. Projects contributes to customer satisfaction thanks to achieve project quality attributes on product and process.
Sergio
do not think there is only one theory or mental model about quality. I have come to see quality as primarily human centric , as a perception of people.
Similar to value. The same thing can be of value to some and seen as detrimental by others.
Is this not a basic assumption of agile mindset and of design thinking?
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
May 31, 2020 10:21 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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Its simple: everything we do is for creating a solution to a problem then it is impossible do not consider which has tha problem. Design thinking is a new buzzword but it is outside there from long time ago (people that work in software know about that). The same for Agile. Both are based on client quality and value and the genesis comes from 1914. I agree with you that quality is human centric. In fact, to define quality organizations must define "client" first. The same with "value". That´s not new. Is inside quality theory form 1940 or before. But I fully disagree with people (I know is not your case) that say something are "a matter of perception or mental model" from things that are well stablished and studied from long time ago. One of those things is all related to quality. So, I do not like to reinvent the wheel because this is waste. I took what is well stablished and it is the foundation and the only thing I do is trying to adapt it to my current project without forgotting the organization is a system. That´s the basement of innovation. In my other work which is about research and teaching in Universities while I use the basement too I can make objections and my own way to transform or move the basement that´s because I can present papers on congress.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
May 31, 2020 9:42 AM
Replying to Thomas Walenta
...
Sergio
do not think there is only one theory or mental model about quality. I have come to see quality as primarily human centric , as a perception of people.
Similar to value. The same thing can be of value to some and seen as detrimental by others.
Is this not a basic assumption of agile mindset and of design thinking?
Its simple: everything we do is for creating a solution to a problem then it is impossible do not consider which has tha problem. Design thinking is a new buzzword but it is outside there from long time ago (people that work in software know about that). The same for Agile. Both are based on client quality and value and the genesis comes from 1914. I agree with you that quality is human centric. In fact, to define quality organizations must define "client" first. The same with "value". That´s not new. Is inside quality theory form 1940 or before. But I fully disagree with people (I know is not your case) that say something are "a matter of perception or mental model" from things that are well stablished and studied from long time ago. One of those things is all related to quality. So, I do not like to reinvent the wheel because this is waste. I took what is well stablished and it is the foundation and the only thing I do is trying to adapt it to my current project without forgotting the organization is a system. That´s the basement of innovation. In my other work which is about research and teaching in Universities while I use the basement too I can make objections and my own way to transform or move the basement that´s because I can present papers on congress. Saving Changes...
Disciplined Agile makes a principle of customer "delight" rather than satisfaction. I think we all know it can be hard/impossible to justify anything with metrics in opposition to a customer's emotional response.
I also wanted to comment on the points made about defining success criteria at the beginning of a project (either in terms of outcomes or constraints). There is a bit of vanity in that idea I think. If initial objectives and constraints are the most important measure of success then aren't you really just measuring someone's ability to make forecasts? It seems analogous to judging a sportsman's success by his ability to predict the results of his games rather than his ability to win them.
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1 reply by Stéphane Parent
Jun 01, 2020 7:54 PM
Stéphane Parent
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Hey David. Often the project outcomes are outside of the project manager's control. So it's not necessarily throwing a batarang-on-a-rope then climbing it.
Another measure of success I've heard used is that the team ends the project with a 'good taste' in their mouth - you can cross the finish line, but as a project manager, you do not want to 'drag your team across it.'
You can finish on time, in budget, with good quality, but if you are dragging your team across the finish line, were you really successful? I think about this pretty often when working with new teams and new projects. Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
May 31, 2020 11:33 AM
Replying to David Portas
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Disciplined Agile makes a principle of customer "delight" rather than satisfaction. I think we all know it can be hard/impossible to justify anything with metrics in opposition to a customer's emotional response.
I also wanted to comment on the points made about defining success criteria at the beginning of a project (either in terms of outcomes or constraints). There is a bit of vanity in that idea I think. If initial objectives and constraints are the most important measure of success then aren't you really just measuring someone's ability to make forecasts? It seems analogous to judging a sportsman's success by his ability to predict the results of his games rather than his ability to win them.
Hey David. Often the project outcomes are outside of the project manager's control. So it's not necessarily throwing a batarang-on-a-rope then climbing it.
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1 reply by David Portas
Jun 02, 2020 1:10 AM
David Portas
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Hi Stéphane. For sure a good PM could do everything right and still have an undesirable outcome. The question in this thread is project success rather than project manager success and in that sense my sports analogy falls down. It still seems to me quite unrealistic to measure project success by the fulfillment of a forecast (I almost wrote "prophecy") or adherence to a process.
Hey David. Often the project outcomes are outside of the project manager's control. So it's not necessarily throwing a batarang-on-a-rope then climbing it.
Hi Stéphane. For sure a good PM could do everything right and still have an undesirable outcome. The question in this thread is project success rather than project manager success and in that sense my sports analogy falls down. It still seems to me quite unrealistic to measure project success by the fulfillment of a forecast (I almost wrote "prophecy") or adherence to a process.
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1 reply by Stéphane Parent
Jun 02, 2020 9:35 AM
Stéphane Parent
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What would you recommend, David, as a way to recognized project success?
Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Jun 02, 2020 1:10 AM
Replying to David Portas
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Hi Stéphane. For sure a good PM could do everything right and still have an undesirable outcome. The question in this thread is project success rather than project manager success and in that sense my sports analogy falls down. It still seems to me quite unrealistic to measure project success by the fulfillment of a forecast (I almost wrote "prophecy") or adherence to a process.
What would you recommend, David, as a way to recognized project success?
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1 reply by David Portas
Jun 02, 2020 4:35 PM
David Portas
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Thomas and Kiron already made some good points about this. Customer satisfaction first, other empirical measures (volume, profit, performance) and the triple constraint. A project that delivers on time, scope and budget but does not satisfy the customer seems like a failure at customer engagement, inspection and adaption.
The project is a success. I have ended up doing the same project again because the product the project produced was not a success. That doesn't change the fact that the project was a success. Scope was fulfilled to the quality desired. Saving Changes...
Poorvi AroraEngagement Manager| DoItLeanPune, Maharashtra, India
The success of the project is considered when the scope of the project is delivered within the timelines and budget defined and the customer has realized the business value of it. Saving Changes...
