Antonio Magallanes Villamor, Jr.Head, Internal Audit Unit| International Center for Agricultural Research in the Dry AreasCairo, Cairo, Egypt
I am interested to know if there is anyone here are internal auditors who are dabbling/immersing in the PM profession. I am interested to know your thoughts and experiences. Saving Changes...
From my perspective, both auditors and project managers have much in common, characteristics such as discipline, adherence to schedule, communication skills, the ability to understand different business and stakeholders' requirements. It is not just a project or an audit program; they can see a global picture.
Unfortunately, I don't have first-hand experience (an auditor) with the topic. Nonetheless, I can see a parallel between the two professions.
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1 reply by Antonio Magallanes Villamor, Jr.
Nov 11, 2019 11:03 AM
Antonio Magallanes Villamor, Jr.
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Dear Maria, Thanks for your response. I am currently working as an internal auditor and at the same time dabbling (or hopefully in the future immerse) in the world of project management. Internal audit is generally a "conservative" discipline that adheres restrictively in the requirements of the internal audit profession. I see myself as different in a way that I have taken certifications from other professions (IIBA and IAPM, and hopefully soon as PMP from PMI). In general, though, the professional characteristics you have mentioned are indeed common for both. However, internal auditors, as I said earlier, are conservative, that is, being flexible afforded to PM professionals is not a norm for internal auditors. I believe the era for internal auditors to have a revised mindset is beginning if not about to come.
Regards,
Tony
Saving Changes...
Antonio Magallanes Villamor, Jr.Head, Internal Audit Unit| International Center for Agricultural Research in the Dry AreasCairo, Cairo, Egypt
Nov 11, 2019 8:44 AM
Replying to Maria Hrabikova
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From my perspective, both auditors and project managers have much in common, characteristics such as discipline, adherence to schedule, communication skills, the ability to understand different business and stakeholders' requirements. It is not just a project or an audit program; they can see a global picture.
Unfortunately, I don't have first-hand experience (an auditor) with the topic. Nonetheless, I can see a parallel between the two professions.
Dear Maria, Thanks for your response. I am currently working as an internal auditor and at the same time dabbling (or hopefully in the future immerse) in the world of project management. Internal audit is generally a "conservative" discipline that adheres restrictively in the requirements of the internal audit profession. I see myself as different in a way that I have taken certifications from other professions (IIBA and IAPM, and hopefully soon as PMP from PMI). In general, though, the professional characteristics you have mentioned are indeed common for both. However, internal auditors, as I said earlier, are conservative, that is, being flexible afforded to PM professionals is not a norm for internal auditors. I believe the era for internal auditors to have a revised mindset is beginning if not about to come.
I agree with you, Antonio. However, I think it's never too late to step outside your comfort zone and to shift your mindset. The first step toward change is awareness. And you have already made it. Good luck in your endeavor.
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1 reply by Antonio Magallanes Villamor, Jr.
Nov 11, 2019 12:16 PM
Antonio Magallanes Villamor, Jr.
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Thanks. Your words are encouraging.
Saving Changes...
Tiago NunesSenior PM Consultant| FreelancerLisboa, Portugal, Portugal
Hi Antonio. I also never worked as an auditor, but I'd generally say that project management is about how to define and control a process to assure an expected outcome, which is exactly the structure an auditor should provide. You should collect all requirements of the audit and list the sequence of activities you need to execute to obtain your audit report, considering all sort of restrictions you need to work out.
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1 reply by Antonio Magallanes Villamor, Jr.
Nov 11, 2019 12:23 PM
Antonio Magallanes Villamor, Jr.
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Thank you very much for your feedback. Nice to see a different perspective.
Saving Changes...
Antonio Magallanes Villamor, Jr.Head, Internal Audit Unit| International Center for Agricultural Research in the Dry AreasCairo, Cairo, Egypt
Nov 11, 2019 12:01 PM
Replying to Maria Hrabikova
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I agree with you, Antonio. However, I think it's never too late to step outside your comfort zone and to shift your mindset. The first step toward change is awareness. And you have already made it. Good luck in your endeavor.
Thanks. Your words are encouraging. Saving Changes...
Antonio Magallanes Villamor, Jr.Head, Internal Audit Unit| International Center for Agricultural Research in the Dry AreasCairo, Cairo, Egypt
Nov 11, 2019 12:15 PM
Replying to Tiago Nunes
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Hi Antonio. I also never worked as an auditor, but I'd generally say that project management is about how to define and control a process to assure an expected outcome, which is exactly the structure an auditor should provide. You should collect all requirements of the audit and list the sequence of activities you need to execute to obtain your audit report, considering all sort of restrictions you need to work out.
Thank you very much for your feedback. Nice to see a different perspective. Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Dear Antonio
Interesting your question
Thanks for sharing
An internal auditor may not be directly involved in project management although he / she should have knowledge in this field.
He is a person who will analyze the Project Management Plan adopted by the company and, consequently, the management plans of the different areas of knowledge and the project documents.
This concept also applies to a specific project management plan.
You will check if the Project Management manual is being followed, if the project documents to be properly completed
As a result of this comparative analysis between "what should be done" and "what is actually being done" you may detect nonconformities or corrective actions.
Must report as a result of the audit
This internal audit may be performed by outsiders hired to perform this work.
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1 reply by Antonio Magallanes Villamor, Jr.
Nov 11, 2019 2:09 PM
Antonio Magallanes Villamor, Jr.
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Thank you very much.
Saving Changes...
Thomas WalentaGlobal Project Economy ExpertHackenheim, Germany
Hi Antonio,
I was involved in establishing an Internal Audit (IA) function recently. It was mainly targeted as an extension and in support of the oversight role of the Board. As such it prioritizes its work on the highest risks the organization has, these often are related to change initiatives. There are those other risks related to operations and compliance.
Mitigating risks requires projects.
Doing audits is in itself a projects.
So I see 3 areas where IA and PM come together: audits, looking at change initiatives, mitigating risk.
If you move a governance level lower, to programs and projects, PMBoK defines Quality Management with 3 processes, the 2nd was called quality assurance (now quality management). QA as I saw it was quite similar to IA on the project level.
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1 reply by Antonio Magallanes Villamor, Jr.
Nov 11, 2019 2:08 PM
Antonio Magallanes Villamor, Jr.
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Dear Thomas, Thank you very much for your profound response. It is very insightful. Honestly, being an auditor for a very long time, it never came across to me the thinking that mitigating risk is a project into itself. I guess because close to the audit-trees that I forgot to see the business forest. In general, your response gave me a profound and different view of my original profession. Many thanks.
Saving Changes...
Antonio Magallanes Villamor, Jr.Head, Internal Audit Unit| International Center for Agricultural Research in the Dry AreasCairo, Cairo, Egypt
Nov 11, 2019 1:39 PM
Replying to Thomas Walenta
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Hi Antonio,
I was involved in establishing an Internal Audit (IA) function recently. It was mainly targeted as an extension and in support of the oversight role of the Board. As such it prioritizes its work on the highest risks the organization has, these often are related to change initiatives. There are those other risks related to operations and compliance.
Mitigating risks requires projects.
Doing audits is in itself a projects.
So I see 3 areas where IA and PM come together: audits, looking at change initiatives, mitigating risk.
If you move a governance level lower, to programs and projects, PMBoK defines Quality Management with 3 processes, the 2nd was called quality assurance (now quality management). QA as I saw it was quite similar to IA on the project level.
Dear Thomas, Thank you very much for your profound response. It is very insightful. Honestly, being an auditor for a very long time, it never came across to me the thinking that mitigating risk is a project into itself. I guess because close to the audit-trees that I forgot to see the business forest. In general, your response gave me a profound and different view of my original profession. Many thanks. Saving Changes...
Antonio Magallanes Villamor, Jr.Head, Internal Audit Unit| International Center for Agricultural Research in the Dry AreasCairo, Cairo, Egypt
Nov 11, 2019 12:52 PM
Replying to Luis Branco
...
Dear Antonio
Interesting your question
Thanks for sharing
An internal auditor may not be directly involved in project management although he / she should have knowledge in this field.
He is a person who will analyze the Project Management Plan adopted by the company and, consequently, the management plans of the different areas of knowledge and the project documents.
This concept also applies to a specific project management plan.
You will check if the Project Management manual is being followed, if the project documents to be properly completed
As a result of this comparative analysis between "what should be done" and "what is actually being done" you may detect nonconformities or corrective actions.
Must report as a result of the audit
This internal audit may be performed by outsiders hired to perform this work.
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