Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
That is not a Lean principle. This is a principle adapted from one principle that belongs to oyota TPS and created by Mary Poppendieck y Tom Poppendieck for Lean Software Development method (I worked with them from years mainly inside the OOSPLA). The principle (in fact is not the right word to use) in TPS is: "Make decisions slowly by consensus, thoroughly considering all options, implement decisions rapidly". It was translated by Mary in two: "Decide as late as possible" and "Deliver as fast as possible". It sounds contradictory, isnt it? But not at all. One of the key reasons to apply agile is facing uncertainty, unexpected situations. The idea was taken from Lean. "Decide as late as possible" is the driver to deal with uncertainty. Is about to decide on facts, at least available facts as possible. Is the opposite of "just do it". Lot of people missunderstand when in agile somebody said "fail fast". Is not about to fail fast, is about to fail consciously.
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2 replies by Luis Branco and Periasamy Srirengaramiah Palanichamy
Nov 21, 2019 2:09 PM
Periasamy Srirengaramiah Palanichamy
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Thanks! It helps
Nov 22, 2019 2:54 AM
Luis Branco
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Dear Sergio
Thanks for the tip
I have to go read what Mary Poppendieck and Tom Poppendieck wrote about for Lean Software Development method
Sometimes there are sexy words that are used in a completely different sense from the words that were created or applied in a context that have nothing to do with the initial context
That is not a Lean principle. This is a principle adapted from one principle that belongs to oyota TPS and created by Mary Poppendieck y Tom Poppendieck for Lean Software Development method (I worked with them from years mainly inside the OOSPLA). The principle (in fact is not the right word to use) in TPS is: "Make decisions slowly by consensus, thoroughly considering all options, implement decisions rapidly". It was translated by Mary in two: "Decide as late as possible" and "Deliver as fast as possible". It sounds contradictory, isnt it? But not at all. One of the key reasons to apply agile is facing uncertainty, unexpected situations. The idea was taken from Lean. "Decide as late as possible" is the driver to deal with uncertainty. Is about to decide on facts, at least available facts as possible. Is the opposite of "just do it". Lot of people missunderstand when in agile somebody said "fail fast". Is not about to fail fast, is about to fail consciously.
In one group where I worked, we would never complete our work until the day it was due because if there were changes required, we could incorporate them and it cut down significantly on the amount of rework required. We sometimes missed our scheduled completion date, but significantly reduced the cost of 2nd effort.
In the next group I worked, we tried to complete everything as soon as possible. Our on-time performance was excellent, but we often had to revise our work multiple times before it was actually complete which resulted in a lot of wasted effort. Saving Changes...
Rolling wave planning (a type of progressive elaboration) is a good example of this. Yes, we could plan a long duration, complex project down to a low degree but if we know that changes might happen months from now which might enable us to deliver better (e.g. technology advancements) then why close doors that don't need to be closed at that moment.
This principle has been extended by Nassim Taleb in his book Antifragile where encourages maintaining a high degree of optionality.
My take is make decisions when the cost of delay exceeds the cost of a poor decision.
Kiron Saving Changes...
Jen Jee ChanManaging Director| DotProjects Pte LtdSingapore, Singapore
From my understanding, this principle or whatever we call it, is the last responsible moment, meaning u delay making a decision prematurely until the COST of not making a decision becomes more than the cost of making a decision.
This flies a little into the waterfall concept, where you decide as early as possible, plan it and implement.
The idea is with the only constant being change in a project environment, decisions should be made with as much updated information as possible which maximises the probability of the decision being a good one..
My views for consideration.. thanks Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Nov 21, 2019 1:53 PM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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That is not a Lean principle. This is a principle adapted from one principle that belongs to oyota TPS and created by Mary Poppendieck y Tom Poppendieck for Lean Software Development method (I worked with them from years mainly inside the OOSPLA). The principle (in fact is not the right word to use) in TPS is: "Make decisions slowly by consensus, thoroughly considering all options, implement decisions rapidly". It was translated by Mary in two: "Decide as late as possible" and "Deliver as fast as possible". It sounds contradictory, isnt it? But not at all. One of the key reasons to apply agile is facing uncertainty, unexpected situations. The idea was taken from Lean. "Decide as late as possible" is the driver to deal with uncertainty. Is about to decide on facts, at least available facts as possible. Is the opposite of "just do it". Lot of people missunderstand when in agile somebody said "fail fast". Is not about to fail fast, is about to fail consciously.
Dear Sergio
Thanks for the tip
I have to go read what Mary Poppendieck and Tom Poppendieck wrote about for Lean Software Development method
Sometimes there are sexy words that are used in a completely different sense from the words that were created or applied in a context that have nothing to do with the initial context
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Nov 22, 2019 5:06 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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And that is a real problem when organizations try to use somethig of those things. Mary and Tom are "low profile" people but they contributed a lot with his work applying Lean to software development. Lot of people said "is you want that agile works for you in the practice do not use Scrum, use XP and Lean Software Development as he first step to agile".
You right @Sante. Just in time is TPS and TPS was the source for Lean. But when people "live" both they will notice that are not the same.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Nov 22, 2019 2:54 AM
Replying to Luis Branco
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Dear Sergio
Thanks for the tip
I have to go read what Mary Poppendieck and Tom Poppendieck wrote about for Lean Software Development method
Sometimes there are sexy words that are used in a completely different sense from the words that were created or applied in a context that have nothing to do with the initial context
And that is a real problem when organizations try to use somethig of those things. Mary and Tom are "low profile" people but they contributed a lot with his work applying Lean to software development. Lot of people said "is you want that agile works for you in the practice do not use Scrum, use XP and Lean Software Development as he first step to agile". Saving Changes...
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