Has anyone applied systems thinking in their role as a PM? As today's projects become increasing complex, especially when digital aspects are included, I believe a systems of systems approach is required to truly understand project interdependencies and touch points. Saving Changes...
Most project managers deploy systems thinking in a social and cultural context without even thinking about it. But with regard to a specific project, project managers need to be aware of the interaction and dependencies between systems, processes and people. Business Analysts are good at this, because they observe data and information flows, processes and systems, then identify patterns and interactions, and then presenting us with a window into the holistic system (or systems).
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1 reply by azrul shah ismail
Jan 06, 2020 8:04 AM
azrul shah ismail
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I strongly agree with Sante. Yup to turn into a digital world all of us need a good transformation when talking about people, process and technology. As a PM we need to think ahead than others and lead the team. A person always thinking about risks with a good visualization ahead having more advantages than others PM. To digitilize everything now the most to think about is to apply a good change management in PM community to synchronize the methodologies, approach and indirectly perhaps robotic thinking.. just my 2 cents :)
Systems thinking is a core principle of quality improvement philosophies and of many scaled agile approaches. Without it, we risk optimizing a component but sub-optimizing the whole.
Silo metrics often discourage systems thinking.
The same is true of performance evaluation systems for PMs and their team members which solely evaluate them based on their project's performance. This encourages them to do whatever it takes to achieve success even at the expense of other projects.
As a systems engineer myself, I find that project management is really systems engineering where the performing team is part of a larger system. For example, when you look at the algorithms used by distributed computing systems such as cloud based or networked servers, they often perform the same functions we do such as gaining consensus, identifying errors, and finding the most efficient methods to pass information. In fact I would say that about half of my MS program was either project management, or concepts that are directly transferable.
The systems-of-systems analogy is a very good one. A true SoS is different from simply multiple systems working together because there is no central controller. We often do not define the processes used in our organizations, or create the PM software we use. That lack of central authority controlling various parts of our environment adds complications because there is a greater degree of uncertainty. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
There is no way to succed in project management or any other discipline without applying systemic theory. Systemic Theory is not the same than systemic thinking as you know. Point is when people teach project management (what I saw along the years) do not teach systemic theory/systemic thinking applied to project management. People teach just a book or guide, just a set of knowledge areas or process without help people to understand why they exists or have been defined. Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Dear Steve Interesting your question Thanks for sharing
From the little I have heard about the 7th edition of PMBOK Guide goes in this direction
There are people who are participating in this topic of your own making who can speak more properly about this subject. Saving Changes...
Excellent feedback. Speaking with my brother-in-law who works in IT for the government, they are becoming increasingly overwhelmed with the complexities and resulting issues with their IT server backup system(s). So many interdependencies on a large variety of equipment/ software from different vendors who all seem not to know how their equipment/ software truly functions in a real environment. They have PMs, systems architects, and dozens of experienced staff, but there seems to be no one person who "owns" the solution or capability. The CTO is not really in tune with the latest technology, and sales people make fantastic pitches which never fully materialize.
I also see this within our organization. The complexity of interconnected/ interdependent equipment/ capabilities seems to be too much for many to grasp. The result is the traditional "silo" approach, which in the end only produces a capability or "benefit" that is not fully realized. I really think project management entities need to start addressing this issue as the world we live is becoming increasingly complex with each passing day. For those interested in further reading I have a attached a link to the DoD Systems Engineering Guide for Systems of Systems below:
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
There is a larger push to use system thinking in areas such as product management and service management. As was pointed out, the trick is in not trading one set of silos for another one. (Silo of silos, anyone?) Saving Changes...
William M Hayden JrAdjunct Assistant Professor| University at Buffalo, School of Management, Operations Management & StrategyBuffalo, Ny, United States
Thanks Steve for this thoughtful question. To be clear, from my perspective I took your thoughts to mean that you recognize that project management within an organization is nested within the greater, overarching system of management of that organization. As project managers, functional managers and their people learn, they cannot outperform the system of management resources their executive management provides. This “System of Executive Management Resources” includes and goes well beyond financial means.
As you note later in thread:
“They have PMs, systems architects, and dozens of experienced staff, but there seems to be no one person who "owns" the solution or capability. The CTO is not really in tune with the latest technology, and sales people make fantastic pitches which never fully materialize.
I also see this within our organization. The complexity of interconnected/ interdependent equipment/ capabilities seems to be too much for many to grasp. The result is the traditional "silo" approach, which in the end only produces a capability or "benefit" that is not fully realized.”
All of which means that unless and until the executive management of the project management organization recognizes, finally accepts, and embraces publicly that their observable, routine behaviors sets the culture in place senior and middle management, project management and functional management can believe, project proposals will continue to be priced around 15 to 30% profit. And when those projects are completed, if the project returns 3 to 5%, there will be celebration.
Leading across your internal cultures will require learning and expertise beyond your current technical expertise. Some say it involves more education, training and development in psychology.
And all psychology is social .
Cheers,
Bill
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1 reply by Steve Ratkaj
Jan 06, 2020 3:18 PM
Steve Ratkaj
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William - This is not exactly what I meant, but what you mention is absolutely true. This is not only true within our organization, but I think PMI as well. PM, IMHO, is really an extension of systems engineering/ thinking, but PMI does not see it that way. Why you might ask? I would dare to say, that it doesn't fit their business model very well. Yes, PMI is a non-profit, but it is in the business of granting certifications, and per wiki, had a revenue of USD$270M (2017). Requiring a form of systems engineering/ thinking approach to PM would greatly diminish their prospects IMHO, and hence their reluctance to move in this direction. For larger, more complex projects, they are really missing out on an integral part of PM (systems engineering).
Most project managers deploy systems thinking in a social and cultural context without even thinking about it. But with regard to a specific project, project managers need to be aware of the interaction and dependencies between systems, processes and people. Business Analysts are good at this, because they observe data and information flows, processes and systems, then identify patterns and interactions, and then presenting us with a window into the holistic system (or systems).
I strongly agree with Sante. Yup to turn into a digital world all of us need a good transformation when talking about people, process and technology. As a PM we need to think ahead than others and lead the team. A person always thinking about risks with a good visualization ahead having more advantages than others PM. To digitilize everything now the most to think about is to apply a good change management in PM community to synchronize the methodologies, approach and indirectly perhaps robotic thinking.. just my 2 cents :) Saving Changes...
"In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, bloodshed - but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love, 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
