About this fact: "Product Owners are from the performing organization, rather than from the client."
Taking that in consideration, if i contract an external company to execute a project "they are the performing organizaction", the product owner will be a person from that company instead of me as a client?
I will appreciate your comments,
Thanks. Saving Changes...
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Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Yenny, who said that? I can assure that I have working with Scrum from the very begining (in fact, if you take that scrum it's almost unrecognizable) and I run initiatitves mixing prople from different "sources" performing different roles in Scrum. The point is, in my humble opinion, some people do not undertand the roles. The source of role definition is the Scrum Guide, not other. Avoid interpretations. With that on hand, you can "mix" people that belongs to different compnaies including they are self employee, At the end is the same problem to face no matter the approach or method or framework you use to create something: motivate people to get the objective.
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1 reply by Yenny Peguero Jimenez
Dec 04, 2019 9:53 AM
Yenny Peguero Jimenez
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Thanks for your comment Sergio.
I read it in the book: The Scrum Master Training Manual by Nader Rad, Frank Turley.
The PO is the voice of the product and should be able to represent the interests of all key stakeholders who will have input into the product's features. As such, it is preferable that the PO come from the client, but if they are unable/unwilling to commit someone, it is possible the role might be staffed from the performing organization but the risk then is that they won't possess sufficient product & organization domain knowledge and/or won't be empowered to make prioritization decisions both of which would reduce their effectiveness.
I've always held the PO role to be the most critical one in delivering products and it is also the hardest to fill with the "right" person.
Kiron
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1 reply by Yenny Peguero Jimenez
Dec 04, 2019 9:54 AM
Yenny Peguero Jimenez
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Absolutly agree with you Kiron, thanks for your help.
Yenny, who said that? I can assure that I have working with Scrum from the very begining (in fact, if you take that scrum it's almost unrecognizable) and I run initiatitves mixing prople from different "sources" performing different roles in Scrum. The point is, in my humble opinion, some people do not undertand the roles. The source of role definition is the Scrum Guide, not other. Avoid interpretations. With that on hand, you can "mix" people that belongs to different compnaies including they are self employee, At the end is the same problem to face no matter the approach or method or framework you use to create something: motivate people to get the objective.
Thanks for your comment Sergio.
I read it in the book: The Scrum Master Training Manual by Nader Rad, Frank Turley.
It didn't have much sense to me.
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Dec 04, 2019 10:02 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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Yenny, the problem is the only and only source for Scrum is the Scrum Guide. All the other are implementations. For example, there is no line, there is no statement that said you must use user stories, story points, kanban boards, and things like that. That´s the power of Scrum: is a framework you can fill it up with tools and techniques that best fits for your current situation. Forget about to read others, generally speaking, while I have a lot of respect for people like Kenny Rubin or Mike Cohn. Both are making a serious work but still are implementations of Scrum
The PO is the voice of the product and should be able to represent the interests of all key stakeholders who will have input into the product's features. As such, it is preferable that the PO come from the client, but if they are unable/unwilling to commit someone, it is possible the role might be staffed from the performing organization but the risk then is that they won't possess sufficient product & organization domain knowledge and/or won't be empowered to make prioritization decisions both of which would reduce their effectiveness.
I've always held the PO role to be the most critical one in delivering products and it is also the hardest to fill with the "right" person.
Kiron
Absolutly agree with you Kiron, thanks for your help. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Dec 04, 2019 9:53 AM
Replying to Yenny Peguero Jimenez
...
Thanks for your comment Sergio.
I read it in the book: The Scrum Master Training Manual by Nader Rad, Frank Turley.
It didn't have much sense to me.
Yenny, the problem is the only and only source for Scrum is the Scrum Guide. All the other are implementations. For example, there is no line, there is no statement that said you must use user stories, story points, kanban boards, and things like that. That´s the power of Scrum: is a framework you can fill it up with tools and techniques that best fits for your current situation. Forget about to read others, generally speaking, while I have a lot of respect for people like Kenny Rubin or Mike Cohn. Both are making a serious work but still are implementations of Scrum
...
1 reply by Yenny Peguero Jimenez
Dec 04, 2019 10:21 AM
Yenny Peguero Jimenez
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I understand Sergio. Thanks for your advice.
I am study to take the Scrum Master (PSM) Exam, and this is the guide they recommend. But anyway i will also read the Scrum Guide.
Yenny, the problem is the only and only source for Scrum is the Scrum Guide. All the other are implementations. For example, there is no line, there is no statement that said you must use user stories, story points, kanban boards, and things like that. That´s the power of Scrum: is a framework you can fill it up with tools and techniques that best fits for your current situation. Forget about to read others, generally speaking, while I have a lot of respect for people like Kenny Rubin or Mike Cohn. Both are making a serious work but still are implementations of Scrum
I understand Sergio. Thanks for your advice.
I am study to take the Scrum Master (PSM) Exam, and this is the guide they recommend. But anyway i will also read the Scrum Guide.
Thank you!
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Dec 04, 2019 10:34 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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Yenny, there is no other source than the Scrum Guide. Not becuase I am saying that, is because the Scrum creators say that. The only source the Scrum Master must know is the Scrum guide. The problem is: with the aim to get money lot of certifications and other things are outside there, including it one of the Scrum creators Jeff Sutherland is contributing to general confusion in my humble opinion (I said that to Jeff due to I worked with him in the past). So, go ahead with the certification but my humble recommendation is do not forget the basement of Scrum No matter we like it or not the Scrum Guide stated it.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Dec 04, 2019 10:21 AM
Replying to Yenny Peguero Jimenez
...
I understand Sergio. Thanks for your advice.
I am study to take the Scrum Master (PSM) Exam, and this is the guide they recommend. But anyway i will also read the Scrum Guide.
Thank you!
Yenny, there is no other source than the Scrum Guide. Not becuase I am saying that, is because the Scrum creators say that. The only source the Scrum Master must know is the Scrum guide. The problem is: with the aim to get money lot of certifications and other things are outside there, including it one of the Scrum creators Jeff Sutherland is contributing to general confusion in my humble opinion (I said that to Jeff due to I worked with him in the past). So, go ahead with the certification but my humble recommendation is do not forget the basement of Scrum No matter we like it or not the Scrum Guide stated it. Saving Changes...
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Yenny
I am not sure this is accurate to be honest. The product owner is the voice of the stakeholders, he is one person, not a committee.
If the project is internal to the organization then yes, he is from within but if it is external to the organization, then he can be a business representative from the client side.
RK Saving Changes...
PINAKI BANERJEEProgram Director| ITC INFOTECH USA INC.Plainsboro, Nj, United States
Product Owner is the person who is able to clearly understand and articulate the features that are to be developed. Therefore ideally he is a person who understands the pulse of the business (domain need) and also the technical aspects (system capabilities). This helps both while defining the "definition of done" and also during the "reviews". I feel, in a perfect world he should be "from the client side" since that is where you will most likely find someone who fits the characteristics above. However, there is no "cast in stone" requirement for him to be from a specific side (Sergio's view above). Saving Changes...
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