Vladimir LiberzonR&D Director| Spider Project TeamMoscow, Russian Federation
In construction and manufacturing duration of most activities depends on volume (quantity) of work to be done measured in physical units (meters, tons, pieces)..
When assigned resources productivity becomes known activity duration is calculated.
Most norms and estimates are applied to the volumes and volume units like unit costs, material requirements per volume unit, resource productivity as volume per hour, etc.
We plan volumes, we measure volumes, and changing volumes (for example entering actual data) we automatically change all corresponding data (remaining activity duration, cost, material consumption) for scheduling and budgeting of remaining works.
We calculate project schedules and budgets basing on activity volumes.
People frequently ask me why and how project managers schedule and manage their projects using tools that do not use volumes as one of activity properties?
Do you know an answer to this simple question? Saving Changes...
Vladimir LiberzonR&D Director| Spider Project TeamMoscow, Russian Federation
Dec 19, 2019 5:26 AM
Replying to Daire Guiney
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The term Volume or Quantity in relation to work done to date or work to be completed by a specific time line is ambiguous in nature and on any project documentation this metric is always a best estimate in order to complete a specific task or deliverable. The reason for this is based on the level of skill and experience available to you that exists to you on the project team. So when you talk about Quantity, no matter how precise your quantity surveyor is in relation to the likely construction cost of a project, the final tally will be a estimate of the total cost. So having a metric that is based on estimations as an active property means that all other metrics that are dependent on this metric would be out by an increasing margin of error depending on the initial estimate for quantity. Most projects start with some fixed metric of certainty such as allocated budget, project team numbers, time given to complete project or contingency budget and work from their with everything else stemming from these certainties being an estimate, even if original budget, team size, timeline or contingency budget changes in the meantime.
Dear Daire,
volume of work is objective information that can be measured correctly in physical units (length, wheight, etc.). The level of skill and experience may define productivity of resources assigned to do the work.
Project budget shall be calculated, allocated budget and time given to complete the project shall be taken into account when project resources are planned. Project planning may result in understanding that allocated budget and time frame are not realistic if they were defined before calculations. Saving Changes...
Wade HarshmanScrum Master| GDITIndianapolis, In, United States
Dec 18, 2019 1:38 PM
Replying to Vladimir Liberzon
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Hi Wade,
in your example the foreman estimated volume of work and basing on resource availability and productivity calculated activity duration, added contingency reserve and gave project manager the results of his calculations.
Our projects usually consist of many interdependent jobs and we need to create project schedules and estimate project budgets well before many types of work will start. Our contractors estimate project cost before the contract is signed and so they schedule future projects basing on their resources capabilities, productivity and availability, volumes of work to be done, material and equipment costs, etc. to prepare their proposals.
Just imagine that your initial estimates of masonry union cost and duration was not good and foreman asked for more time and money than you expected. It is not safe to rely on fair ideas.
Let me clarify, I'm not suggesting that a project manager should avoid contracts. I'm responding to the question of why the project manager doesn't consider volumes. My long answer is that volume IS being considered at the appropriate level. In my hypothetical scenario, the project manager does not have the expertise to look at a pile of bricks and calculate a completion date, which is what the building owner wants to know. The masons are looking at the volume of bricks, as well as other factors, to determine % complete and estimated date of completion. The project manager factors these updates into the project plan to estimate the final completion date.
I could say the same thing about other types of projects. I can't estimate the amount of code a software team needs to write nor estimate the amount of time it will take to write that code, but the development team can. The point is that volumes are considered. But by itself, the quantity of raw material is not a meaningful metric until it is converted into an estimate by an expert. That is why we rarely see it as a property of work activities. Saving Changes...
Vladimir LiberzonR&D Director| Spider Project TeamMoscow, Russian Federation
Yes, project managers do not have an expertise in everything that they manage and project managers rarely create the schedules themselves. In construction this is the job of project planners.
When project is planned project planners use the databases of various norms including resource productivity on typical assignments, material requirements per volume unit of typical activities, etc. If these norms are absent project planners ask the same questions to people that have needed expertise.
Activity volume is not the same as the quantity of raw materials. If we build a wall we know its dimensions and volume, then we calculate the required materials basing on this information (as an example the required number of bricks). We know (or ask an expert) about the number of bricks that one mason lays in one hour. We may also know the crew (the number of masons and helpers) assigned to this activity. It is sufficient for calculating activity duration.
This estimation is natural and I expect that people do it this way and if the volume will change activity duration and material consumption will change proportionally.
When norms are known it is not necessary to ask experts for estimating activity duration, cost, etc. and project plan can be easily created and justified. And volumes of work are known if drawings are available.
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1 reply by Wade Harshman
Dec 19, 2019 8:54 AM
Wade Harshman
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If you have the knowledge to create reasonable estimates based on activity volume and those estimates are accurate enough for your project needs, then there's nothing wrong with that.
I'm merely giving a too-long answer to the original question you shared. I might note the volume of work to be done, but the volume is only one factor in the estimated budget and duration estimates. The volume IS considered, but in my project tracking tool I probably won't use volume alone to track progress.
Saving Changes...
Wade HarshmanScrum Master| GDITIndianapolis, In, United States
Dec 19, 2019 8:37 AM
Replying to Vladimir Liberzon
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Yes, project managers do not have an expertise in everything that they manage and project managers rarely create the schedules themselves. In construction this is the job of project planners.
When project is planned project planners use the databases of various norms including resource productivity on typical assignments, material requirements per volume unit of typical activities, etc. If these norms are absent project planners ask the same questions to people that have needed expertise.
Activity volume is not the same as the quantity of raw materials. If we build a wall we know its dimensions and volume, then we calculate the required materials basing on this information (as an example the required number of bricks). We know (or ask an expert) about the number of bricks that one mason lays in one hour. We may also know the crew (the number of masons and helpers) assigned to this activity. It is sufficient for calculating activity duration.
This estimation is natural and I expect that people do it this way and if the volume will change activity duration and material consumption will change proportionally.
When norms are known it is not necessary to ask experts for estimating activity duration, cost, etc. and project plan can be easily created and justified. And volumes of work are known if drawings are available.
If you have the knowledge to create reasonable estimates based on activity volume and those estimates are accurate enough for your project needs, then there's nothing wrong with that.
I'm merely giving a too-long answer to the original question you shared. I might note the volume of work to be done, but the volume is only one factor in the estimated budget and duration estimates. The volume IS considered, but in my project tracking tool I probably won't use volume alone to track progress.
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1 reply by Vladimir Liberzon
Dec 19, 2019 9:32 AM
Vladimir Liberzon
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Yes, of course volume is one of many factors that are used in activity and project tracking and it is the main (but not the single) factor for activity planning.
But it is not planned and tracked in popular project management tools and this prevents to apply norms and justify other estimates.
Saving Changes...
Vladimir LiberzonR&D Director| Spider Project TeamMoscow, Russian Federation
Dec 19, 2019 8:54 AM
Replying to Wade Harshman
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If you have the knowledge to create reasonable estimates based on activity volume and those estimates are accurate enough for your project needs, then there's nothing wrong with that.
I'm merely giving a too-long answer to the original question you shared. I might note the volume of work to be done, but the volume is only one factor in the estimated budget and duration estimates. The volume IS considered, but in my project tracking tool I probably won't use volume alone to track progress.
Yes, of course volume is one of many factors that are used in activity and project tracking and it is the main (but not the single) factor for activity planning.
But it is not planned and tracked in popular project management tools and this prevents to apply norms and justify other estimates.
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1 reply by Wade Harshman
Dec 20, 2019 8:01 AM
Wade Harshman
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I see nothing wrong with adding it as a field to software.
I would only caution new project managers that it is an incomplete metric.
Interesting question, as we are currently estimating the "volume" of work necessary to generate the draft "request for proposal" for one of our projects. As previously mentioned we start with a WBS-schedule-tasks-duration. We are not yet complete, but our "detailed" schedule (in excess of 1000 lines just for this deliverable) is now in excess of 20,000 hrs to generate that "deliverable", quite a shock for many, but the number is actually typical. Saving Changes...
Vladimir LiberzonR&D Director| Spider Project TeamMoscow, Russian Federation
Hi Steve,
we are used to projects consisting of many thousands lines.
I don't know what tool do you use but do you enter activity volumes in your project management tool? Do you calculate activity duration and cost basing on volume of work to be done? If yes what tool do you use for these calculations?
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1 reply by Steve Ratkaj
Dec 19, 2019 10:27 AM
Steve Ratkaj
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Hi Vladimir;
We are using MS Project at the moment, but others are using Primavera, and we are starting to use our SAP/ERP system for some high level scheduling of projects. We do not track costs at the moment of office workers as we do not use timesheets, but it would be a very easy step to do so if we wish based on the estimated durations already in our schedules. Our SAP/ERP systems tracks all costs including those salaried employees (annual), but again it would be very easy to link those to tasks because we also have a resource loaded schedule.
Hi Steve,
we are used to projects consisting of many thousands lines.
I don't know what tool do you use but do you enter activity volumes in your project management tool? Do you calculate activity duration and cost basing on volume of work to be done? If yes what tool do you use for these calculations?
Hi Vladimir;
We are using MS Project at the moment, but others are using Primavera, and we are starting to use our SAP/ERP system for some high level scheduling of projects. We do not track costs at the moment of office workers as we do not use timesheets, but it would be a very easy step to do so if we wish based on the estimated durations already in our schedules. Our SAP/ERP systems tracks all costs including those salaried employees (annual), but again it would be very easy to link those to tasks because we also have a resource loaded schedule.
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1 reply by Vladimir Liberzon
Dec 19, 2019 11:52 AM
Vladimir Liberzon
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Hi Steve,
from your answer I understand that you do not plan and track activity volumes of work, but only duration and costs.
Did I understand correctly that your project includes only office works and resources are office workers?
Saving Changes...
Vladimir LiberzonR&D Director| Spider Project TeamMoscow, Russian Federation
Dec 19, 2019 10:27 AM
Replying to Steve Ratkaj
...
Hi Vladimir;
We are using MS Project at the moment, but others are using Primavera, and we are starting to use our SAP/ERP system for some high level scheduling of projects. We do not track costs at the moment of office workers as we do not use timesheets, but it would be a very easy step to do so if we wish based on the estimated durations already in our schedules. Our SAP/ERP systems tracks all costs including those salaried employees (annual), but again it would be very easy to link those to tasks because we also have a resource loaded schedule.
Hi Steve,
from your answer I understand that you do not plan and track activity volumes of work, but only duration and costs.
Did I understand correctly that your project includes only office works and resources are office workers?
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1 reply by Steve Ratkaj
Dec 19, 2019 12:52 PM
Steve Ratkaj
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Yes, and yes, but as mentioned we easily could if desired. For project "planning" phases, yes, it internal "office" work for the most part we track. During project implementation/ execution we use the contractor's schedule which sometimes can easily be 100,000's of thousand of lines, and can include "shop floor" work packages.
Saving Changes...
Thomas WalentaGlobal Project Economy ExpertHackenheim, Germany
Vladimir
good to see you contributing here and bringing up some new perspectives and outofthebox ideas.
Not too many in the PMI universe have been exposed to theories or tactics that are not available in English language. I know myself a lot of interesting German and also some Russian articles. Bet there are interesting Japanese and Chinese ideas out there. Quoting DA: choice is good.
I appreciate your contributions to project management since I met you first, at the PMI conference in Den Hague, when you presented jointly with Russ Archibald. Keep giving!
From you I learned about line-of-balace scheduling and tracking.
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1 reply by Vladimir Liberzon
Dec 19, 2019 12:44 PM
Vladimir Liberzon
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Thank you Thomas,
it was always a pleasure to meet you at various PM events.
I am sure that sharing experience, methods and tools used around the world could be beneficial for project management community.
I remember special event organized by Orange County PMI Chapter 15 years ago when they invited speakers from different countries (me included) to discuss PM approaches and tools used in their countries. It could be very interesting for everybody.