Andrew SoswaTechnology leader| Leading global financial institutionElk Grove Village, Il, United States
I propose that we petition PMI to create "PMI Agile Project Manager".
Creating PMI-DA waters down PMI-ACP and creating PMPv7 with Agile component is muddling the understanding what each cert is. HR recruiters know what PMP is but when I try to explain PMI-ACP, they look at me crazy until I tell them "it's like CSM".
"PMI Agile Project Manager" is easier to market because it is more recognizable by everyone.
How can I create and run this petition? Saving Changes...
After these news (confusion in my humble opinion) what will happen to PMI-ACP certification? What about the people who passed the PMI-ACP certification exam?
Luis -
I've previously shared concerns similar to yours with the PMI folks most directly involved with DA - they feel that there is room in the PMI "stable" for multiple agile certifications and that the ACP and DA certifications are not competing with one another.
My assumption is that 2020 will be an "inspect & adapt" year as is usually the case whenever an acquisition has been made...
Kiron
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1 reply by Luis Branco
Dec 29, 2019 6:56 AM
Luis Branco
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Dear Kiron
Thank you for your comment on my reflection.
Volkswagen group brands are:
Volkswagen, Audi, Seat, Skoda, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, Ducati; and for commercial vehicles, Scania and MAN
For the customer they are distinct brands with different market positions
Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Dec 29, 2019 6:35 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
...
Luis -
I've previously shared concerns similar to yours with the PMI folks most directly involved with DA - they feel that there is room in the PMI "stable" for multiple agile certifications and that the ACP and DA certifications are not competing with one another.
My assumption is that 2020 will be an "inspect & adapt" year as is usually the case whenever an acquisition has been made...
Kiron
Dear Kiron
Thank you for your comment on my reflection.
Volkswagen group brands are:
Volkswagen, Audi, Seat, Skoda, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, Ducati; and for commercial vehicles, Scania and MAN
For the customer they are distinct brands with different market positions Saving Changes...
Alexandre CostaScrum Master| Integer Consulting - Pictet technologiesLoures, Portugal
Dec 29, 2019 6:01 AM
Replying to Luis Branco
...
My take on PMI certification rebranding
PMI had one key product of its offering (PMP Certification)
Following a product line extension strategy created: CAPM, PgMP, PfMP
Pursuing its strategy of increasing supply, now extending the range (but being careful to offer the PMI brand as a quality assurance), it created PMI-RMP, PMI-SP, PMI-ACP and PMI-BA.
Care has always been taken to update the PMBOK Guide, the project management reference guide, including new techniques and tools and / or processes and / or approaches to projects, ensuring that PMP certification remains the reference product for PMI.
Care was also taken in the content of the certification exam questions, ensuring high selection criteria.
What will the new PMBOK Guide look like?
What will the new PMP certification exams look like?
What will come next after the acquisition of DA and Flex?
In my humble opinion, DA and Flex certifications should not be included in the PMI offering. Should stay in AD
The risk of losing focus and losing market value has to be equated
I am waiting to see what surprises PMI will anouce, but for sure my plans for the next year are already made with several possible paths, I will evaluate possible scenarios until March ( time to renovate membership).
I love PMI reputation, knowledge and community, but i can tell you as confidence that one of the paths( pessimitisc path) is if PMI-ACP becomes a subset of Discipline Agile, if that really happens i have no alternative in pursuit other certification as replacement. It will not be Discipline Agile for sure, i love the concept but in europe, it as no expression is mostly unknown and does not add value to the eyes of HR and labor market at least for now.
I was expecting as strategy that PMI start using the local chapters to increase reputation of DA and dissiminate trainings options, using local experienced members and turn them into trainers, but until now that is not a reality. My feeling until now is that neither PMI knows exactly the path that will follow. Without information we only can backup in feelings and perceptions.
For me it's a weekness PMI not involve more the local chapters in
the training of new certifications.
I whish you the best and to all community and a great 2020 for everybody.
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1 reply by Kiron Bondale
Dec 29, 2019 11:28 AM
Kiron Bondale
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What is interesting is that when we were challenging the incorporation of the "Scrum Master" terminology in the DALSM (Disciplined Agile Lean Scrum Master) certification given that DA is agnostic and the founders had frequently criticized that role's name, what we were told by Dave Garrett (who was the PMI executive directly involved with the DA & Flex acquisition and incorporation strategies) was that they need to include the Scrum Master name to increase brand awareness and help their marketing of the credential.
Kiron
Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
I have a big doubt
Was the acquisition of DA and Flex made under the partnership between PMI and Agile Alliance?
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1 reply by Kiron Bondale
Dec 29, 2019 11:26 AM
Kiron Bondale
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Luis -
No - the partnership with Agile Alliance was purely for the purposes of producing the Agile Practice Guide. DA has been a participant of the Agile Alliance's conferences but is a wholly separate entity. Both the Flex and DA acquisitions were done independently by PMI.
I have a big doubt
Was the acquisition of DA and Flex made under the partnership between PMI and Agile Alliance?
Luis -
No - the partnership with Agile Alliance was purely for the purposes of producing the Agile Practice Guide. DA has been a participant of the Agile Alliance's conferences but is a wholly separate entity. Both the Flex and DA acquisitions were done independently by PMI.
I am waiting to see what surprises PMI will anouce, but for sure my plans for the next year are already made with several possible paths, I will evaluate possible scenarios until March ( time to renovate membership).
I love PMI reputation, knowledge and community, but i can tell you as confidence that one of the paths( pessimitisc path) is if PMI-ACP becomes a subset of Discipline Agile, if that really happens i have no alternative in pursuit other certification as replacement. It will not be Discipline Agile for sure, i love the concept but in europe, it as no expression is mostly unknown and does not add value to the eyes of HR and labor market at least for now.
I was expecting as strategy that PMI start using the local chapters to increase reputation of DA and dissiminate trainings options, using local experienced members and turn them into trainers, but until now that is not a reality. My feeling until now is that neither PMI knows exactly the path that will follow. Without information we only can backup in feelings and perceptions.
For me it's a weekness PMI not involve more the local chapters in
the training of new certifications.
I whish you the best and to all community and a great 2020 for everybody.
What is interesting is that when we were challenging the incorporation of the "Scrum Master" terminology in the DALSM (Disciplined Agile Lean Scrum Master) certification given that DA is agnostic and the founders had frequently criticized that role's name, what we were told by Dave Garrett (who was the PMI executive directly involved with the DA & Flex acquisition and incorporation strategies) was that they need to include the Scrum Master name to increase brand awareness and help their marketing of the credential.
Kiron
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2 replies by Alexandre Costa and Rami Kaibni
Dec 29, 2019 12:18 PM
Alexandre Costa
...
Kiron,
Obviously, i Will not discuss the fusion for this reasons: 1 - I never heard about Discipline Agile until PMI adquired institution 2 - I did not belong to the group of experts that decided the strategy of the integration and I didn't even have to be part, I'm just a recent and modest member from a remote location like Europe far from decisions.
I do not have access to privileged information so i can only give my opinions after the PMI anoucements. Sometimes this informations came through you first and I thank you for that.
Other than that, the only thing i can say is that i did not apreciate the fact of ACP certification start being used as requisite of CDAP.
In my point of view this subordinate the certification to the most advanced certifications of DA creating a obvious dependencie, between two separate institutions suposedely independents as you mentioned to @Luis.
Alexandre Costa
Dec 29, 2019 1:08 PM
Rami Kaibni
...
Kiron
Do you think this was a good approach or not ? I am honestly neutral or indifferent.
In my opinion, if DA is Agnostic, they should stick to what they believe in and not incorporate a role within a certification that they previously critisized just for marketing purposes. For me, that goes beyond what they believe in, somehow.
RK
Saving Changes...
Alexandre CostaScrum Master| Integer Consulting - Pictet technologiesLoures, Portugal
Dec 29, 2019 11:28 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
...
What is interesting is that when we were challenging the incorporation of the "Scrum Master" terminology in the DALSM (Disciplined Agile Lean Scrum Master) certification given that DA is agnostic and the founders had frequently criticized that role's name, what we were told by Dave Garrett (who was the PMI executive directly involved with the DA & Flex acquisition and incorporation strategies) was that they need to include the Scrum Master name to increase brand awareness and help their marketing of the credential.
Kiron
Kiron,
Obviously, i Will not discuss the fusion for this reasons: 1 - I never heard about Discipline Agile until PMI adquired institution 2 - I did not belong to the group of experts that decided the strategy of the integration and I didn't even have to be part, I'm just a recent and modest member from a remote location like Europe far from decisions.
I do not have access to privileged information so i can only give my opinions after the PMI anoucements. Sometimes this informations came through you first and I thank you for that.
Other than that, the only thing i can say is that i did not apreciate the fact of ACP certification start being used as requisite of CDAP.
In my point of view this subordinate the certification to the most advanced certifications of DA creating a obvious dependencie, between two separate institutions suposedely independents as you mentioned to @Luis.
Alexandre Costa
...
1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Dec 29, 2019 1:16 PM
Rami Kaibni
...
Alexandre
First, you are a great member and I personally appreciate your valuable input and honest opinion always so please keep contributing.
Second, if PMI-ACP becomes a subset of DA then for sure thats a concern for me too. This should have been made clear to everyone in advance, if thats the intention.
On a last note, I live in Canada, I barely heard of DA until Kiron opened my eyes to it in 2018. As you mentioned, for now, there is nothing official and its all speculations. Lets wait and see till the official announcement.
On more thing to keep in mind: PMP and all other PMI credentials when they first were initiated, it took time for them to get known, people and chapters to adapt to them. I personally think that with time, DA will become well known as I did some research and read some articles and it is in fact very interesting and practical.
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Dec 29, 2019 5:10 AM
Replying to Luis Branco
...
Getting back to the PMI-ACP issue
An analysis perspective:
In September 2019 PMI-ACP certified 30,507 people
Certification costs per person: 21 hours of training + hours of study + $ 495.00 (exam) = $ 2500.00 (lowest cost)
About $ 77,000,000.00 cost for certificates and $ 15,101,000.00 direct to PMI
Can PMI afford to end this certification?
Luis
Not sure those calculations are very accurate. It does cost much lower than that. This is how much it did cost me:
Exam Fee: $435 (PMI Member) Course on Udemy: $25 Simulation Exams on PM PrepCast: $100 Hours of Study: $0 (This is personal time, not working hours)
Total = $560 USD
By the way, just for your info, as per the 2018 financial report of PMI (Which is published publicaly), there received $203,532,837 Million just from Dues and Professional Examination Fees. That's almost 25 Million more than 2017.
Hope this makes sense.
RK
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1 reply by Luis Branco
Dec 29, 2019 3:10 PM
Luis Branco
...
Dear Rami Thank you for sharing with us your accounts about PMI-ACP certification cost
Not all people are PMI members. Cannot calculate price based on PMI assumption Some, to get the member discount, joined the PMI
Exam Preparation Course ($ 25). Does PMI recognize these hours without certificate? How much does the certificate cost
Hours of study are an opportunity cost (don't you usually count opportunity costs on your projects?)
We all know PMI is a business with very interesting recipes.
How do they spend the dough on recipes?
This is another conversation
What is curious is that they are always asking for volunteers :-)
But an American-style business model, similar to Toastmasters :-)
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Dec 29, 2019 11:28 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
...
What is interesting is that when we were challenging the incorporation of the "Scrum Master" terminology in the DALSM (Disciplined Agile Lean Scrum Master) certification given that DA is agnostic and the founders had frequently criticized that role's name, what we were told by Dave Garrett (who was the PMI executive directly involved with the DA & Flex acquisition and incorporation strategies) was that they need to include the Scrum Master name to increase brand awareness and help their marketing of the credential.
Kiron
Kiron
Do you think this was a good approach or not ? I am honestly neutral or indifferent.
In my opinion, if DA is Agnostic, they should stick to what they believe in and not incorporate a role within a certification that they previously critisized just for marketing purposes. For me, that goes beyond what they believe in, somehow.
RK
...
1 reply by Kiron Bondale
Dec 29, 2019 5:02 PM
Kiron Bondale
...
Great question Rami!
Me and a few fellow long standing DA supporters all tried to influence the "powers that be" in Atlanta at the train-the-trainer workshop to change the name to something less method-centric and my opinion is that Mark and Scott would have gone a different direction but the marketing numbers likely rendered their resistance futile.
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Dec 29, 2019 12:18 PM
Replying to Alexandre Costa
...
Kiron,
Obviously, i Will not discuss the fusion for this reasons: 1 - I never heard about Discipline Agile until PMI adquired institution 2 - I did not belong to the group of experts that decided the strategy of the integration and I didn't even have to be part, I'm just a recent and modest member from a remote location like Europe far from decisions.
I do not have access to privileged information so i can only give my opinions after the PMI anoucements. Sometimes this informations came through you first and I thank you for that.
Other than that, the only thing i can say is that i did not apreciate the fact of ACP certification start being used as requisite of CDAP.
In my point of view this subordinate the certification to the most advanced certifications of DA creating a obvious dependencie, between two separate institutions suposedely independents as you mentioned to @Luis.
Alexandre Costa
Alexandre
First, you are a great member and I personally appreciate your valuable input and honest opinion always so please keep contributing.
Second, if PMI-ACP becomes a subset of DA then for sure thats a concern for me too. This should have been made clear to everyone in advance, if thats the intention.
On a last note, I live in Canada, I barely heard of DA until Kiron opened my eyes to it in 2018. As you mentioned, for now, there is nothing official and its all speculations. Lets wait and see till the official announcement.
On more thing to keep in mind: PMP and all other PMI credentials when they first were initiated, it took time for them to get known, people and chapters to adapt to them. I personally think that with time, DA will become well known as I did some research and read some articles and it is in fact very interesting and practical.
Best wishes to you as well in 2020.
Cheers
RK
...
1 reply by Alexandre Costa
Dec 29, 2019 1:30 PM
Alexandre Costa
...
Rami,
Thank you for always be available to give your honest opinions that I respect immensely.
I recomend this article reading that I found on the NET is very credible and somehow enlightening about DA's true market reach and hypothetical future plans.
"In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, bloodshed - but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love, 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."