Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Feb 06, 2020 12:15 PM
Replying to Reicelyn Sarabun
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Interesting discussion specially for someone like me contemplating on getting my PMP designation, I've been in PM profession for over 7 years of solid experience. My value as none PMP did not dictate /hinder my salary.. lots of discussion about the value of PMP is diminishing and for us to even discuss that means it is happening.
Cara Jocelyn
Thank you for participating in this reflection
What is your opinion about the current value of PMP certification?
And its future value? Saving Changes...
Deepesh RammoorthyICT Project Manager ( PMP®AgilePM®Certified ScrumMaster® (CSM®))| Australian Red Cross Blood ServiceTarneit, Vic, Australia
I still see the value of "Certified Project Manager" and yes, PMP and Prince2 are two certifications that are recognized and routinely form part of a job advertisement. It took me six months of part time study to pass the PMP exam so I would not say that it was easy to pass. If more people get the certification then good on them . I am yet to hear that people did not put the hard work in studying for the PMP exam and they just happened to ace it ! This proves that they value the exam and the certification and put in genuine efforts to clear it. The Certified Scrum Master is relatively easy to pass and so many people have them , still the value of CSM has not diminished and in fact it's likely to become more popular.
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1 reply by Luis Branco
Feb 07, 2020 3:44 AM
Luis Branco
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Dear Deepesh
Thank you for participating in this reflection and for your opinion
All of us, who are PMP, have endeavored to achieve certification
The point is that many people complain about not being able to pass the exam ...
I am convinced that the next exams for the PMP certification will be easier and, as a result, this certification will lose value
Dear Kiron
Thank you for participating in this reflection and for your opinion
You wrote: "I would suggest that dilution of its value has already happened years ago ..."
I would like to understand your perspective better ...
My question is about what may happen soon
I have met enough PMP holders who couldn't effectively manage any project bigger than painting a room. I've also met many highly effective ones who don't possess not have any desire to possess any PM credential.
I have encountered way more of the former in the last 10 years than I did in the first 10 years after I got my credential.
Ergo, dilution is happening...
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1 reply by Luis Branco
Feb 07, 2020 3:53 AM
Luis Branco
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Dear Kiron
Thank you for your opinion
I believe that: "I have met enough PMP holders who couldn't effectively manage any project bigger than painting a room"
Do you consider that these people, when they applied for the exam, did it fulfilling all the requirements?
How does Stanford University or Harvard Business School maintain its reputation?
Why have exams become easier?
Saving Changes...
Alexandre CostaScrum Master| Integer Consulting - Pictet technologiesLoures, Portugal
Dear Luis,
I think I must agree with kiron, even than the certification could add value to your cv, is not guarantee that you are a good project manager.
Miths one and two:
1 - You won't succeed without project management certification.
2 - You should be a excellent project manager because you have a PMP certification.
In the end no matter if you are certified or not, your skills will prevail and will be judged by your contraters.
If the job contraters require the certification as mandatory or a plus in that case could make the difference. Normally proved experience is more relevant.
Alexandre.
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1 reply by Luis Branco
Feb 07, 2020 4:05 AM
Luis Branco
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Dear Alexandre
Thank you for participating in this reflection and for your opinion
Of course, a person who was a project manager for 4500 hours (requirement to apply for the exam), that is, about 2.5 years of managing projects, proved in practice that he is a project manager (otherwise he would have been fired these functions)
Unless, when people apply for the exam, they are making false statements (which is unethical), the relevance of the experience is present
To continue maintaining the prestige of the PMP certification, the PMI may be even more rigorous in evaluating exam applications
But, my suspicion goes in the opposite direction: the exams will be easier.
Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Feb 06, 2020 6:47 PM
Replying to Deepesh Rammoorthy
...
I still see the value of "Certified Project Manager" and yes, PMP and Prince2 are two certifications that are recognized and routinely form part of a job advertisement. It took me six months of part time study to pass the PMP exam so I would not say that it was easy to pass. If more people get the certification then good on them . I am yet to hear that people did not put the hard work in studying for the PMP exam and they just happened to ace it ! This proves that they value the exam and the certification and put in genuine efforts to clear it. The Certified Scrum Master is relatively easy to pass and so many people have them , still the value of CSM has not diminished and in fact it's likely to become more popular.
Dear Deepesh
Thank you for participating in this reflection and for your opinion
All of us, who are PMP, have endeavored to achieve certification
The point is that many people complain about not being able to pass the exam ...
I am convinced that the next exams for the PMP certification will be easier and, as a result, this certification will lose value Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Feb 06, 2020 11:27 PM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
...
I have met enough PMP holders who couldn't effectively manage any project bigger than painting a room. I've also met many highly effective ones who don't possess not have any desire to possess any PM credential.
I have encountered way more of the former in the last 10 years than I did in the first 10 years after I got my credential.
Ergo, dilution is happening...
Dear Kiron
Thank you for your opinion
I believe that: "I have met enough PMP holders who couldn't effectively manage any project bigger than painting a room"
Do you consider that these people, when they applied for the exam, did it fulfilling all the requirements?
How does Stanford University or Harvard Business School maintain its reputation?
Why have exams become easier?
...
1 reply by Kiron Bondale
Feb 08, 2020 12:30 AM
Kiron Bondale
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Luis -
I think it is possible to meet the requirements for the exam honestly, but someone who has managed low complexity projects in a fairly narrow domain might not really be a highly competent PM. They wouldn't be misrepresenting their experience, but they just wouldn't be effective in a number of project contexts.
I can't speak to how Ivy League schools maintain their credibility beyond the calibre of their faculty, research and publications. I DO believe that traditional secondary education is well past due for a significant evolution to make it continue to be provide value cost effectively.
As far as the exam getting simpler, I wouldn't draw that conclusion based on the number of folks I've encountered who did fail it on their first attempt. Yes, there continue to be lots of resources available to help someone study, but as those are all guesses (some better than others) on what types of questions will be asked, it doesn't correlate with higher pass rates.
Also, I believe that PMI does review and re-calibrate things like what is the minimum score required to pass from time to time...
Kiron
Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Feb 07, 2020 2:47 AM
Replying to Alexandre Costa
...
Dear Luis,
I think I must agree with kiron, even than the certification could add value to your cv, is not guarantee that you are a good project manager.
Miths one and two:
1 - You won't succeed without project management certification.
2 - You should be a excellent project manager because you have a PMP certification.
In the end no matter if you are certified or not, your skills will prevail and will be judged by your contraters.
If the job contraters require the certification as mandatory or a plus in that case could make the difference. Normally proved experience is more relevant.
Alexandre.
Dear Alexandre
Thank you for participating in this reflection and for your opinion
Of course, a person who was a project manager for 4500 hours (requirement to apply for the exam), that is, about 2.5 years of managing projects, proved in practice that he is a project manager (otherwise he would have been fired these functions)
Unless, when people apply for the exam, they are making false statements (which is unethical), the relevance of the experience is present
To continue maintaining the prestige of the PMP certification, the PMI may be even more rigorous in evaluating exam applications
But, my suspicion goes in the opposite direction: the exams will be easier. Saving Changes...
If your predictions are confirmed, I believe that as PMP experiences even more massification, "title loving" PMs and market players will start looking into more exquisite (hard to achieve) certifications, because they heavily relate the title with the PM's quality. Maybe will see a boost in Agile, Prince2, speciality certifications, among others...
For the existing PMPs, more than ever we'll have the challenge of keeping sharp and up to date, build a relevant track record, develop a strong personal brand and find new ways of differentiating yourself... The title itself won't separate you as much from the rest of the pack as it once did...
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1 reply by Luis Branco
Feb 07, 2020 3:01 PM
Luis Branco
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Dear João
Thank you for participating in this reflection and for your opinion
It will be with sadness that I will see the level of requirement to obtain the PMP certification lowered
Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Feb 07, 2020 2:39 PM
Replying to Joao Sarmento
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Hello Luís,
If your predictions are confirmed, I believe that as PMP experiences even more massification, "title loving" PMs and market players will start looking into more exquisite (hard to achieve) certifications, because they heavily relate the title with the PM's quality. Maybe will see a boost in Agile, Prince2, speciality certifications, among others...
For the existing PMPs, more than ever we'll have the challenge of keeping sharp and up to date, build a relevant track record, develop a strong personal brand and find new ways of differentiating yourself... The title itself won't separate you as much from the rest of the pack as it once did...
Dear João
Thank you for participating in this reflection and for your opinion
It will be with sadness that I will see the level of requirement to obtain the PMP certification lowered Saving Changes...
I believe that: "I have met enough PMP holders who couldn't effectively manage any project bigger than painting a room"
Do you consider that these people, when they applied for the exam, did it fulfilling all the requirements?
How does Stanford University or Harvard Business School maintain its reputation?
Why have exams become easier?
Luis -
I think it is possible to meet the requirements for the exam honestly, but someone who has managed low complexity projects in a fairly narrow domain might not really be a highly competent PM. They wouldn't be misrepresenting their experience, but they just wouldn't be effective in a number of project contexts.
I can't speak to how Ivy League schools maintain their credibility beyond the calibre of their faculty, research and publications. I DO believe that traditional secondary education is well past due for a significant evolution to make it continue to be provide value cost effectively.
As far as the exam getting simpler, I wouldn't draw that conclusion based on the number of folks I've encountered who did fail it on their first attempt. Yes, there continue to be lots of resources available to help someone study, but as those are all guesses (some better than others) on what types of questions will be asked, it doesn't correlate with higher pass rates.
Also, I believe that PMI does review and re-calibrate things like what is the minimum score required to pass from time to time...
Kiron
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3 replies by Luis Branco and Stéphane Parent
Feb 08, 2020 3:51 AM
Luis Branco
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Dear Kiron
Thanks for sharing your opinion
You wrote: "I have met enough PMP holders who couldn't effectively manage any project bigger than painting a room"
Then he wrote: "They wouldn't be misrepresenting their experience, but they just wouldn't be effective in a number of project contexts"
Regarding the exam, it gets simpler.
You know that many people have complained to PMI because they failed the PMP certification exam
Studies show that 80% of people attribute to others, or to the context or external situations, responsibility for what happens to them
Applying the results of this study to the PMP certification exam, only 20% give themselves responsibility for failing
Many people say that they failed the exam because of the training they received, given by the REP's, or because the exam is difficult or because it was not sunny on the day of the exam :-)
My fear is that PMI will fall into the temptation of facilitism
Some people responsible for certification programs have already changed ...
Feb 08, 2020 6:13 AM
Luis Branco
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Dear Kiron
We agree with what you wrote: "I DO believe that traditional secondary education is well past due for a significant evolution to make it continue to be provide value cost effectively"
What are the competences for the XXI century?
Communication, Critical Thinking, Collaboration and Creativity
Teaching has to be structured to develop these skills
Facilitism is that secondary school teachers accept that students:
- Make "Copy" "Paste" of articles taken from the internet on the topics of reflection and give them good marks
- Make poorly structured presentations and about dubious content (without scientific basis)
- Perform work in which critical thinking is not present (if they are "copy" "paste")
- Do not collaborate with each other in carrying out the work
- Allow that the effort and contribution to the result of the presented works is not the same
Feb 11, 2020 10:57 AM
Stéphane Parent
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When I took my PMP, PMI still assigned you a score. I remember that shortly after I passed, they increased the passing mark to about 82.5%. I remember thinking that I would have passed the elevated threshold.
"When one door closes another door opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the ones which open for us."