Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Feb 20, 2020 10:31 AM
Replying to Daire Guiney
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Dear Luis,
I would say no. To call it Fiduciary responsibilities would be misleading especially in a legal context.
What a project manager has in relation to responsibilities is both matched by law, by the organizations own standards, any professional body that the project manager is a member of and guidelines that the project manager has signed up to and of course the project manager own set of ethics and morals which will ultimately self govern how a project manager conducts themselves.
This extends to treating team members equally and fairly, financial conduct, transparency in decision making process and abiding by the laws of the jurisdiction that the project manager resides in.
How a project manager approach ethics and morals in a professional setting is getting a lot of traction in recent questions being asked in the forums. The reasons for this could be that it is seen as an additional strength of a project manager if they can be shown to be ethical and morally strong.
A good approach would be if PMI could award accreditation to projects manager who could demonstrate (either through an audit of projects, references from clients or some other mechanism) that they uphold the highest standard expected from them as a project manager. I believe this would set a lot of project managers apart from their peers.
Daire
Dear Daire.
Thank you for sharing your opinion with us
Do you consider it feasible:
"A good approach would be if PMI could award accreditation to projects manager who could demonstrate (either through an audit of projects, references from clients or some other mechanism) that they uphold the highest standard expected from them as a project manager"
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1 reply by Daire Guiney
Feb 21, 2020 7:24 AM
Daire Guiney
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Dear Luis,
In a lot of professional (Medicine, Law, Military) newly qualified people are required to swear an oath to uphold the highest standards with in their chosen profession.
This is acknowledgement by their superiors that there maybe times and situation when their credibility and character maybe called into question and thus in order for them to keep their jobs they must adhere to this code, standard and legal obligation.
So the question is, if these professions can implement a standard and bar for their members to live up to and maintain, why cant other professions implement such a system.
An accreditation process would be acknowledgement that such a person is 'clean' with regard their ethics and morals but PMI would still need to implement an ethics and moral guideline and framework of their own in order to benchmark their members against. Otherwise they would have to use the law in each country that a member resides in order to benchmark and accredit a member against.
I do see such a system as becoming necessary in a lot of profession in the near future. It would be akin today of getting a background check before joining an organization.
Daire
Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Feb 20, 2020 10:54 AM
Replying to Scott Theus
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The role of a fiduciary (again, in the United States; it may be different elsewhere) is financial in nature; it entails acting on behalf of a person or organization to safeguard their financial interests. (See the definition at https://definitions.uslegal.com/f/fiduciary)
A project manager has a moral and ethical responsibility to manage the project's resources in a way that benefits the project, its stakeholders, and the organization as a whole, but this generally does not rise to the level of a fiduciary.
An exception to this would be if the organization gave the project manager funds to hold in a separate bank account under their control. In this case the PM would have a fiduciary responsibility to manage those funds to the organization's best interest.
The difference is a matter of control; in most cases a PM is given a budget against which they submit and approve expenditures, but the funds are held in a company account that the PM does not control. When the funds are held in an account owned or controlled by the PM then they become a fiduciary.
Dear Scott
Thank you for sharing your opinion with us Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Feb 20, 2020 11:34 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
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Yes, Yes & No - as I indicated in my initial response, the responsibilities of a PM extend well beyond just fiduciary responsibilities towards the company they work for.
Dear Kiron
Thank you for sharing your opinion with us
Interesting what you wrote: "The responsibilities of a PM extend well beyond just fiduciary responsibilities towards the company they work for" Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Dearest
We can consider:
- Duty of Care
- Duty of Loyalty
- Duty of Obedience
- Duty of Integrity
As fiduciary responsibilities of the Project Manager?
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1 reply by Peter Rapin
Feb 24, 2020 11:46 AM
Peter Rapin
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These are Terms of Employment/contract responsibilities or accountability - written or implied. To me fiduciary responsibilities would be with a third entity not party to the contract. A doctor has a fiduciary responsibility to the public as would a engineer and some select other professions. Fiduciary responsibility comes into play when the injured party cannot rely on a contract to claim damages.
Dear Daire.
Thank you for sharing your opinion with us
Do you consider it feasible:
"A good approach would be if PMI could award accreditation to projects manager who could demonstrate (either through an audit of projects, references from clients or some other mechanism) that they uphold the highest standard expected from them as a project manager"
Dear Luis,
In a lot of professional (Medicine, Law, Military) newly qualified people are required to swear an oath to uphold the highest standards with in their chosen profession.
This is acknowledgement by their superiors that there maybe times and situation when their credibility and character maybe called into question and thus in order for them to keep their jobs they must adhere to this code, standard and legal obligation.
So the question is, if these professions can implement a standard and bar for their members to live up to and maintain, why cant other professions implement such a system.
An accreditation process would be acknowledgement that such a person is 'clean' with regard their ethics and morals but PMI would still need to implement an ethics and moral guideline and framework of their own in order to benchmark their members against. Otherwise they would have to use the law in each country that a member resides in order to benchmark and accredit a member against.
I do see such a system as becoming necessary in a lot of profession in the near future. It would be akin today of getting a background check before joining an organization.
Daire
...
1 reply by Luis Branco
Feb 21, 2020 2:58 PM
Luis Branco
...
Dear Daire
Thank you for your opinion
In Portugal, the Order of Engineers has a code of ethics and deontology that must be respected by all its members
What is your opinion about the 4 fiduciary responsibilities mentioned by me?
Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Feb 21, 2020 7:24 AM
Replying to Daire Guiney
...
Dear Luis,
In a lot of professional (Medicine, Law, Military) newly qualified people are required to swear an oath to uphold the highest standards with in their chosen profession.
This is acknowledgement by their superiors that there maybe times and situation when their credibility and character maybe called into question and thus in order for them to keep their jobs they must adhere to this code, standard and legal obligation.
So the question is, if these professions can implement a standard and bar for their members to live up to and maintain, why cant other professions implement such a system.
An accreditation process would be acknowledgement that such a person is 'clean' with regard their ethics and morals but PMI would still need to implement an ethics and moral guideline and framework of their own in order to benchmark their members against. Otherwise they would have to use the law in each country that a member resides in order to benchmark and accredit a member against.
I do see such a system as becoming necessary in a lot of profession in the near future. It would be akin today of getting a background check before joining an organization.
Daire
Dear Daire
Thank you for your opinion
In Portugal, the Order of Engineers has a code of ethics and deontology that must be respected by all its members
What is your opinion about the 4 fiduciary responsibilities mentioned by me?
...
1 reply by Daire Guiney
Feb 22, 2020 7:59 AM
Daire Guiney
...
Dear Luis,
"We can consider: - Duty of Care - Duty of Loyalty - Duty of Obedience - Duty of Integrity
As fiduciary responsibilities of the Project Manager?"
I do agree that Two out of the Four traits that you have outlined, that being Duty of care and Duty of integrity are traits required by Fiduciary people in the course of their work. However Duty of Obedience and Duty of Loyalty would be more reserved for people in the Military.
When you talk about Fiduciary people you are nearly exclusively talking about person who are financially sound and who are acting on behalf of a agent normally assigned by some sort of covenant or contract or trust fund until the agent in question reach a certain age of maturity or a certain medical condition.
In Portugal, the Order of Engineers has a code of ethics and deontology that must be respected by all its members
What is your opinion about the 4 fiduciary responsibilities mentioned by me?
Dear Luis,
"We can consider: - Duty of Care - Duty of Loyalty - Duty of Obedience - Duty of Integrity
As fiduciary responsibilities of the Project Manager?"
I do agree that Two out of the Four traits that you have outlined, that being Duty of care and Duty of integrity are traits required by Fiduciary people in the course of their work. However Duty of Obedience and Duty of Loyalty would be more reserved for people in the Military.
When you talk about Fiduciary people you are nearly exclusively talking about person who are financially sound and who are acting on behalf of a agent normally assigned by some sort of covenant or contract or trust fund until the agent in question reach a certain age of maturity or a certain medical condition.
Daire
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1 reply by Luis Branco
Feb 24, 2020 3:42 AM
Luis Branco
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Dear Daire
Thank you for your opinion
Still on the topic you mentioned:
When we join PMI we accept to respect and comply with the code of ethics
If any member violates the code of ethics, depending on the severity, it can be eradicated from PMI
What are the consequences for the exercise of the profession as project manager?
As you said, and well, each country has its own legislation.
I am convinced that it will be difficult, at least for now, to prevent someone from exercising their professional activity for violation of the code of ethics
Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Feb 22, 2020 7:59 AM
Replying to Daire Guiney
...
Dear Luis,
"We can consider: - Duty of Care - Duty of Loyalty - Duty of Obedience - Duty of Integrity
As fiduciary responsibilities of the Project Manager?"
I do agree that Two out of the Four traits that you have outlined, that being Duty of care and Duty of integrity are traits required by Fiduciary people in the course of their work. However Duty of Obedience and Duty of Loyalty would be more reserved for people in the Military.
When you talk about Fiduciary people you are nearly exclusively talking about person who are financially sound and who are acting on behalf of a agent normally assigned by some sort of covenant or contract or trust fund until the agent in question reach a certain age of maturity or a certain medical condition.
Daire
Dear Daire
Thank you for your opinion
Still on the topic you mentioned:
When we join PMI we accept to respect and comply with the code of ethics
If any member violates the code of ethics, depending on the severity, it can be eradicated from PMI
What are the consequences for the exercise of the profession as project manager?
As you said, and well, each country has its own legislation.
I am convinced that it will be difficult, at least for now, to prevent someone from exercising their professional activity for violation of the code of ethics
...
1 reply by Daire Guiney
Feb 24, 2020 5:18 AM
Daire Guiney
...
Dear Luis,
When you join PMI you sign up to a voluntary code of ethics that has no legal consequences or ramifications except maybe in certain circumstances you may lose you PMI recognized qualification and membership but it does not stop a person from calling themselves a project member or still practicing as a project member.
In my own country I have noticed with professional bodies an inability or lack of desire to bring prosecutions against their members who have breached the law and associated Code of Ethics.
There has being a distinct slowness in instigating investigations were amble evidence has been submitted to the professional bodies that would warrant an investigation.
In many cases it takes action from the Department of Justice to make things happen.
So are these professional bodies acting in the best interest of its members or the public?
The last thing a professional body like PMI whats to be seen is protecting members who are only acting in their own best interests and not of their clients, employees or the general public.
Actions have consequences and in project management where budgets can run into the billions, take decades to implement and employee thousands of people, it is important that accountability is maintain throughout the lifecycle of the project.
When we join PMI we accept to respect and comply with the code of ethics
If any member violates the code of ethics, depending on the severity, it can be eradicated from PMI
What are the consequences for the exercise of the profession as project manager?
As you said, and well, each country has its own legislation.
I am convinced that it will be difficult, at least for now, to prevent someone from exercising their professional activity for violation of the code of ethics
Dear Luis,
When you join PMI you sign up to a voluntary code of ethics that has no legal consequences or ramifications except maybe in certain circumstances you may lose you PMI recognized qualification and membership but it does not stop a person from calling themselves a project member or still practicing as a project member.
In my own country I have noticed with professional bodies an inability or lack of desire to bring prosecutions against their members who have breached the law and associated Code of Ethics.
There has being a distinct slowness in instigating investigations were amble evidence has been submitted to the professional bodies that would warrant an investigation.
In many cases it takes action from the Department of Justice to make things happen.
So are these professional bodies acting in the best interest of its members or the public?
The last thing a professional body like PMI whats to be seen is protecting members who are only acting in their own best interests and not of their clients, employees or the general public.
Actions have consequences and in project management where budgets can run into the billions, take decades to implement and employee thousands of people, it is important that accountability is maintain throughout the lifecycle of the project.
Daire
...
1 reply by Luis Branco
Feb 24, 2020 6:41 AM
Luis Branco
...
Dear Daire
Thanks for sharing vconnosco this your opinion
You put the question in a different perspective
In Portugal, in some professions, the Orders and their members protect each other even though this may harm the community.
Unfortunately it is like this
Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Feb 24, 2020 5:18 AM
Replying to Daire Guiney
...
Dear Luis,
When you join PMI you sign up to a voluntary code of ethics that has no legal consequences or ramifications except maybe in certain circumstances you may lose you PMI recognized qualification and membership but it does not stop a person from calling themselves a project member or still practicing as a project member.
In my own country I have noticed with professional bodies an inability or lack of desire to bring prosecutions against their members who have breached the law and associated Code of Ethics.
There has being a distinct slowness in instigating investigations were amble evidence has been submitted to the professional bodies that would warrant an investigation.
In many cases it takes action from the Department of Justice to make things happen.
So are these professional bodies acting in the best interest of its members or the public?
The last thing a professional body like PMI whats to be seen is protecting members who are only acting in their own best interests and not of their clients, employees or the general public.
Actions have consequences and in project management where budgets can run into the billions, take decades to implement and employee thousands of people, it is important that accountability is maintain throughout the lifecycle of the project.
Daire
Dear Daire
Thanks for sharing vconnosco this your opinion
You put the question in a different perspective
In Portugal, in some professions, the Orders and their members protect each other even though this may harm the community.
Unfortunately it is like this
...
1 reply by Daire Guiney
Feb 24, 2020 2:26 PM
Daire Guiney
...
Dear Luis,
I understand the term collective responsibility were the mentality 'we are all in this together' is the underlining philosophy of these orders and institutes. But times have changed and if one good thing comes out of the recent financial crisis is an acknowledgement that this approach was open to wholesale abuse and it is primarily the reason why the problem got so bad in the first place.
I would be the first to admire loyalty and dedication to the cause but when it is misplaced and in some cases unwarranted then you are on to something completely different; that being what Peter Rapin said and paraphrasing him in his post that he won't be lead by anybody and has the right to walk away if the conditions do not meet his expectations.
So going back to my original point, should their not be legally binding code of ethics that ensure that project managers act in the best interest of those that they represent not those that represent the project manager.