Further Discussion on Working From Home in the Long Term
Peter RapinSubject Matter Expect; Project Delivery| Independent ConsultantOntario, Canada
There have been a number of postings dealing with WFH in the last couple weeks due to the demands of the pandemic response (physical separation). Many are of the opinion that WFH is so advantageous that it will continue after the pandemic response has been relaxed and may even become a "new way" of doing things in the future. Four concerns I would like to get responses to:
1) coping with the home distractions;
2) maintaining reasonable balance between work and personal life. Is the 40 hour work week in jeopardy?
3) cost of home office - currently the government in many jurisdictions allow tax breaks for home office costs as cost of doing business (should the tax base be expected to subsidize these business costs? to what extent should companies be required to pick up the expenses?)
4) who owns commuting time. I have heard of managers expecting, even demanding, that employees apply saved commuting time to the daily work commitment. Is this fair? (see 2 above re 40 hour work week) Saving Changes...
I would say to #4, expecting an employee to work the time they would normally spend commuting without compensation is illegal in the US. That has been tested in the courts. Even having a long walk from the parking lot to your work area is the employee's uncompensated time.
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1 reply by Peter Rapin
Apr 24, 2020 7:34 PM
Peter Rapin
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I agree and the same applies in Canada. However, typically staff positions (non-hourly) are not strictly time monitored and the attitude is you are being paid to perform a function, not watch the clock. Specifically directing someone to work longer hours may be against current labour laws but informally expecting them to is not out of the question.
Joe: "Hey boss, I can't get all this done within the time available"
Boss: "You don't have to drive to work every day so you have more time available. If you have a problem with that maybe we should rethink the WFH arrangement."
Saving Changes...
Peter RapinSubject Matter Expect; Project Delivery| Independent ConsultantOntario, Canada
Apr 24, 2020 6:15 PM
Replying to Keith Novak
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I would say to #4, expecting an employee to work the time they would normally spend commuting without compensation is illegal in the US. That has been tested in the courts. Even having a long walk from the parking lot to your work area is the employee's uncompensated time.
I agree and the same applies in Canada. However, typically staff positions (non-hourly) are not strictly time monitored and the attitude is you are being paid to perform a function, not watch the clock. Specifically directing someone to work longer hours may be against current labour laws but informally expecting them to is not out of the question.
Joe: "Hey boss, I can't get all this done within the time available"
Boss: "You don't have to drive to work every day so you have more time available. If you have a problem with that maybe we should rethink the WFH arrangement." Saving Changes...
Milena IlievaProgram Manager Global accounts| VMWareVienna, Austria
Hi Peter,
I personally would not want to work 100% home office. 50/50 would be my preference. I like working and talking to people face to face, and no tool can replace the satisfaction from personal conversation for me.
Regarding your 4 points:
1. home distractions can be challenging for some people, who, let's say, do not have dedicated home office or space for working. This can drastically increase the stress, reduce effectiveness and quality in one's work and have negative impact on the personal life. As work from home has not been so popular in all companies and professions, I do not believe it has been something people considered when buying or renting a home.
2. balancing work and personal life for sure will be challenging. I for example tend to check and reply to emails even after working hours. I can see that employees will end up working more while still paying the same amount, or even less, take for example point 4 - where commute time is in dispute..
3. this one, I was surprised in previous discussions that did not came up. it can have quite heavy impact on personal financials - having more costs working from home. Some companies (in IT area) already have some rules and the companies are covering part if not all of internet costs, etc. At least the companies I worked for. What about the costs for equipment (laptop, telephone, printer, office materials, ..), proper internet speed. And very important - having secure internet connection! The list can be longer..
4. I do not have experience with this one, so I cannot comment. It may be specific for the US.
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1 reply by Peter Rapin
Apr 25, 2020 10:20 AM
Peter Rapin
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Thanks for the input, much appreciated. See my response to Kiron.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
I am making home office from more than 20 years ago. The only thing that has sense in your list is about the cost. Home office transfer the company cost to employees. For the other things, is the same than you are working in the office.
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1 reply by Peter Rapin
Apr 25, 2020 10:22 AM
Peter Rapin
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Thanks for the input. Many underestimate the expenses of WFH although it is very much related to the nature of the work and one's work habits.
Saving Changes...
Alexandre CostaScrum Master| Integer Consulting - Pictet technologiesLoures, Portugal
Peter,
I am surprised how some society's are open to discuss who owns the commute time, after all , in many cases a lot of people have to get up very early to arrive work at time, who knows how many public transports has to catch to arrive there, that they payed from their own pocket not payed by the company. Abording this subject in Europe(UE) could be very offensive for the workers, never someone had the courage to even talk about this in public at least that I have knowledge. Labour protection in Europe is a serious matter, this kind of thoughts could trigger massive strikes.
Alexandre
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1 reply by Peter Rapin
Apr 25, 2020 10:28 AM
Peter Rapin
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Thanks for the response. I agree that the individual owns commute time as it is a consideration when taking on a position. Some live across the street from the office, some in the adjacent town.
However, I am suggesting that some manager/leaders may take advantage and expect employees to show their appreciation for WFH privileges by extending their hours.
Not everyone understands the legal requirements and may submit to the expectation pressures. Doesn't hurt to open up discussions.
#3 should have been addressed through the initial shift to home working. Some companies will help their staff with this, others won't.
#1 and #2 are a question of personal discipline and mindfulness, and misbehavior will usually translate into conflict with one's family or poor results (work-wise).
#4 is a question of company culture and manager behaviors. Good leaders will focus on what has been achieved rather than how much time has been expended. Poor ones will look at a clock...
Kiron
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1 reply by Peter Rapin
Apr 25, 2020 10:19 AM
Peter Rapin
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I don't disagree with your comments however reality is not always in line with preference or legality. Its not so much what should be but what is being done.
Item 1 & 2: Yes there is personal discipline involved and some have a greater ability to separate work from personal and family life. In my "company office" life I would use the commute time to transfer from office-mode to private/family-mode. In my WFH life I would set specific time restrictions - I became a clock watcher.
Item 3: There are a couple of scenarios here 1) the company reduces office facilities thus realizing a reduction in expenses. Those savings can be directed to the WFH employee although the expenses of a multitude of WFH employees is more than normal office expenses. and 2) the company retains the office facilities however allows/encourages WFH thus there is a duplication Who pays for that duplication? If the company perceives the WFH benefit to be mainly with the employee it may expect the employee to pay to offset the benefit.
Then in some jurisdictions (Canada for example) WFH expenses are tax deductible thus the general taxpayer covers some of the cost to providing that service. Is that fair?
Item 4: As I have noted earlier, although there may be laws and conventions related to working hours and ownership of commute time in reality it allows a poor manager/leader to take greater advantage of staff.
Although some of the issues with WFH are personal discipline, companies need to be aware of the risks. Unhappy staff means poor results. Unhappiness can be from poor personal decisions or unfair employment practices.
In the long term I see that more and more of us will become independent contractors rather than staff. This leads to whole other set of questions and concerns.
Saving Changes...
Peter RapinSubject Matter Expect; Project Delivery| Independent ConsultantOntario, Canada
Apr 25, 2020 9:12 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
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#3 should have been addressed through the initial shift to home working. Some companies will help their staff with this, others won't.
#1 and #2 are a question of personal discipline and mindfulness, and misbehavior will usually translate into conflict with one's family or poor results (work-wise).
#4 is a question of company culture and manager behaviors. Good leaders will focus on what has been achieved rather than how much time has been expended. Poor ones will look at a clock...
Kiron
I don't disagree with your comments however reality is not always in line with preference or legality. Its not so much what should be but what is being done.
Item 1 & 2: Yes there is personal discipline involved and some have a greater ability to separate work from personal and family life. In my "company office" life I would use the commute time to transfer from office-mode to private/family-mode. In my WFH life I would set specific time restrictions - I became a clock watcher.
Item 3: There are a couple of scenarios here 1) the company reduces office facilities thus realizing a reduction in expenses. Those savings can be directed to the WFH employee although the expenses of a multitude of WFH employees is more than normal office expenses. and 2) the company retains the office facilities however allows/encourages WFH thus there is a duplication Who pays for that duplication? If the company perceives the WFH benefit to be mainly with the employee it may expect the employee to pay to offset the benefit.
Then in some jurisdictions (Canada for example) WFH expenses are tax deductible thus the general taxpayer covers some of the cost to providing that service. Is that fair?
Item 4: As I have noted earlier, although there may be laws and conventions related to working hours and ownership of commute time in reality it allows a poor manager/leader to take greater advantage of staff.
Although some of the issues with WFH are personal discipline, companies need to be aware of the risks. Unhappy staff means poor results. Unhappiness can be from poor personal decisions or unfair employment practices.
In the long term I see that more and more of us will become independent contractors rather than staff. This leads to whole other set of questions and concerns. Saving Changes...
Peter RapinSubject Matter Expect; Project Delivery| Independent ConsultantOntario, Canada
Apr 25, 2020 6:52 AM
Replying to Milena Ilieva
...
Hi Peter,
I personally would not want to work 100% home office. 50/50 would be my preference. I like working and talking to people face to face, and no tool can replace the satisfaction from personal conversation for me.
Regarding your 4 points:
1. home distractions can be challenging for some people, who, let's say, do not have dedicated home office or space for working. This can drastically increase the stress, reduce effectiveness and quality in one's work and have negative impact on the personal life. As work from home has not been so popular in all companies and professions, I do not believe it has been something people considered when buying or renting a home.
2. balancing work and personal life for sure will be challenging. I for example tend to check and reply to emails even after working hours. I can see that employees will end up working more while still paying the same amount, or even less, take for example point 4 - where commute time is in dispute..
3. this one, I was surprised in previous discussions that did not came up. it can have quite heavy impact on personal financials - having more costs working from home. Some companies (in IT area) already have some rules and the companies are covering part if not all of internet costs, etc. At least the companies I worked for. What about the costs for equipment (laptop, telephone, printer, office materials, ..), proper internet speed. And very important - having secure internet connection! The list can be longer..
4. I do not have experience with this one, so I cannot comment. It may be specific for the US.
Thanks for the input, much appreciated. See my response to Kiron. Saving Changes...
Peter RapinSubject Matter Expect; Project Delivery| Independent ConsultantOntario, Canada
Apr 25, 2020 7:54 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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I am making home office from more than 20 years ago. The only thing that has sense in your list is about the cost. Home office transfer the company cost to employees. For the other things, is the same than you are working in the office.
Thanks for the input. Many underestimate the expenses of WFH although it is very much related to the nature of the work and one's work habits.
...
1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Apr 25, 2020 10:55 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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You are welcome. In my case it was a result of cost/benefit analysis. The beneift home office give me versus the associated cost (monetary and non monetary) I assumed are good for me. For example, in my case, I am paying for the internet service but I do not have to go to the office (25 km from my home) and I can manage my work/life time using the time available for not going/returning to the office. In my personal evaluation internet service is something I had in my home and I have to have it no matter I work from home or not. Other example is I do not have an exclusive space in my home to use as an "office". But it does not matter for me because I use a notebook then I can move to the space I consider the best for making my work "happy" and confortable. And the basic thing: nobody in my company can take my time and space. I mean, while I am open to exceptions, I manage my time and space no matter I am involved on programs where the top, top, top management in the company are key stakeholders. At the end, as other things in the life, is up to you.
Saving Changes...
Peter RapinSubject Matter Expect; Project Delivery| Independent ConsultantOntario, Canada
Apr 25, 2020 8:42 AM
Replying to Alexandre Costa
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Peter,
I am surprised how some society's are open to discuss who owns the commute time, after all , in many cases a lot of people have to get up very early to arrive work at time, who knows how many public transports has to catch to arrive there, that they payed from their own pocket not payed by the company. Abording this subject in Europe(UE) could be very offensive for the workers, never someone had the courage to even talk about this in public at least that I have knowledge. Labour protection in Europe is a serious matter, this kind of thoughts could trigger massive strikes.
Alexandre
Thanks for the response. I agree that the individual owns commute time as it is a consideration when taking on a position. Some live across the street from the office, some in the adjacent town.
However, I am suggesting that some manager/leaders may take advantage and expect employees to show their appreciation for WFH privileges by extending their hours.
Not everyone understands the legal requirements and may submit to the expectation pressures. Doesn't hurt to open up discussions. Saving Changes...