Software project workers are the only knowledge workers ?
Mohan KulkarniPM Specialist| MBK ConsultantsPune, Maharashtra State. India, India
It is perceived by many that managing software projects mean managing knowledge work projects and need knowledge workers while industrial projects those require only upfront planning hence knowledge workers are not that needed ---How far this perception is true---views solicited Saving Changes...
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Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
I think your question is because time ago Thomas Davenport published an article on that. Because my extra activity I am a researcher on some fields working with some Universities around the world (I earned a PhD with Major in Software Engineering from CMU SEI). I am commenting this just to pointed out that this was debated around the world and it was considered with not to much sustain. My personal point of view: it does not matter except if people that work in software are able to gain a better position inside organizations because of that. This is a real thing in some countries.
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1 reply by Mohan Kulkarni
May 12, 2020 8:43 AM
Mohan Kulkarni
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Dear Sergio
Thanks for confirmation that all workers do need to have kind of knowledge to perform the given task or assignment or job . Unless that is there he or she cannot perform.
So we can arrive at an understanding all workers are knowledge workers in their respective domains.
Thanks and look forward for more interactions
Warm regards
Mohan
Even on a routine construction project, if the manual laborers don't possess sufficient competency and domain knowledge, they won't be as effective or efficient as a team which does.
There are differences in the nature of the knowledge and how it gets applied depending on the domain.
Kiron
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1 reply by Mohan Kulkarni
May 12, 2020 8:36 AM
Mohan Kulkarni
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Dear Kiron
Thanks for the quick and apt reply. I do have conviction that sans knowledge the task cannot be performed or any management is not possible..
This issue i raised because i observe some considerations that people make to differentiate software projects with industrial projects that too with a tone of belittling.
Thanks for complete reply
warm regards
Mohan
Saving Changes...
Mohan KulkarniPM Specialist| MBK ConsultantsPune, Maharashtra State. India, India
May 12, 2020 8:07 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
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Mohan -
All projects require knowledgeable staff.
Even on a routine construction project, if the manual laborers don't possess sufficient competency and domain knowledge, they won't be as effective or efficient as a team which does.
There are differences in the nature of the knowledge and how it gets applied depending on the domain.
Kiron
Dear Kiron
Thanks for the quick and apt reply. I do have conviction that sans knowledge the task cannot be performed or any management is not possible..
This issue i raised because i observe some considerations that people make to differentiate software projects with industrial projects that too with a tone of belittling.
Thanks for complete reply
warm regards
Mohan Saving Changes...
Mohan KulkarniPM Specialist| MBK ConsultantsPune, Maharashtra State. India, India
May 12, 2020 7:28 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
...
I think your question is because time ago Thomas Davenport published an article on that. Because my extra activity I am a researcher on some fields working with some Universities around the world (I earned a PhD with Major in Software Engineering from CMU SEI). I am commenting this just to pointed out that this was debated around the world and it was considered with not to much sustain. My personal point of view: it does not matter except if people that work in software are able to gain a better position inside organizations because of that. This is a real thing in some countries.
Dear Sergio
Thanks for confirmation that all workers do need to have kind of knowledge to perform the given task or assignment or job . Unless that is there he or she cannot perform.
So we can arrive at an understanding all workers are knowledge workers in their respective domains.
Thanks and look forward for more interactions
Warm regards
Mohan
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1 reply by David Portas
May 12, 2020 4:31 PM
David Portas
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Hi Mohan,
Very true and it's a good point. The salient differences between software development and some other activities really have to do with things other than people's knowledge or abilities. For example uncertainty and lack of precision can be definite advantages in software development but you could hardly say the same in the field of mechanical engineering. Self-organising teams, iteratively re-working a product is a fine way to build software but surely less satisfactory for constructing a building. Because many of us are familiar with those differences it would perhaps be easy to think that technology requires greater problem solving or creative skills. That cannot be true, it's just that the skills are different.
Is there a tendency to "belittle" others about it? I don't think I've noticed that. However, Edward Tufte has noted that there seem to be only two kinds of people who habitually refer to their customers as "users", namely: drug dealers and technology professionals. That possibly tells us something about the "them and us" mindset of the tech industry. It's not usually meant unkindly but to those outside the tech industry perhaps it can sometimes seem disrespectful. I expect doctors and engineers also say unkind things about their customers in private, it's just that the things said by the tech profession tend to get circulated in public.
It is not at all unusual for people to have biases towards their own chosen profession. After all, people once thought the whole universe revolved around the Earth.
I think however that it would be very difficult to try and convince engineers, machinists, supply chain specialists, health care professionals, and many others that software projects are the only ones requiring applied knowledge throughout their lifecyles. Due to their own biases, they might even consider software as merely a tool to accomplish some greater purpose.
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1 reply by Mohan Kulkarni
May 13, 2020 3:49 AM
Mohan Kulkarni
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Dear Keith
Thanks for your response.
I do not agree with your understanding that software workers are only knoweledge workers to accomplish something with a greater purpose for following reasons--in my view
1) software is only tool that is very useful for solving complexity in mathematical problems which are logically possible for solving manually but would require tremendous effort and time and there is a possibility of erronious results because of manual limitations of focussed accurate working..
So basically logic , Science or algorithum can only be done by human brain . Software can do coding based on this input from human brain and process is further to get the results.
eg structural problems can be solved by software programs but the basic algorithum is given by the structural mechanics based on finite element analysis, For economic problems the basic theories of economics give the solution to the problems that gets languaged in a program for fast and accurate answers. This is true every where as yet.
As programming needs a knowledge of progranmming the basic sciences and technical methods of anlysies need knowledge of those areas .
It is clear that knowledge of various kinds and from various areas is required and is applied to solve all human problems from several areas of life.
2)If you look at ten wonder projects of the world built before the birth and rise of computer and software ,accomplished in between 18 th century and 450 BC ,all those were created with great purpose in those times and even today stand out extra ordinary even by today's technological capacity standards.eg Taj mahal of India, Panama Canal, Tower of Pisa 1173, Machu Pichu city built in 1450, Great wall of China , Pyramids etc All needed huge technical knowledge , tremendous skills , coordination and organisation ---all these facets are nothing but knowledge
The new empire state building of 110 story was built in 14 months time in 1930-31 --the world largest building without use of computers and software-is a classic example ..
3) since beginning of societal life all projects small or big or large knowledge required for different tasks from different work/skill areas and the coordination and organisation made the projects accomplished..
4) Alone software or alone other engineering or non enginerring knowledge cannot accomplish present day projects or problems
Trust clarifications are worth pondering .
Thanks once again
REgards
Mohan
Dear Sergio
Thanks for confirmation that all workers do need to have kind of knowledge to perform the given task or assignment or job . Unless that is there he or she cannot perform.
So we can arrive at an understanding all workers are knowledge workers in their respective domains.
Thanks and look forward for more interactions
Warm regards
Mohan
Hi Mohan,
Very true and it's a good point. The salient differences between software development and some other activities really have to do with things other than people's knowledge or abilities. For example uncertainty and lack of precision can be definite advantages in software development but you could hardly say the same in the field of mechanical engineering. Self-organising teams, iteratively re-working a product is a fine way to build software but surely less satisfactory for constructing a building. Because many of us are familiar with those differences it would perhaps be easy to think that technology requires greater problem solving or creative skills. That cannot be true, it's just that the skills are different.
Is there a tendency to "belittle" others about it? I don't think I've noticed that. However, Edward Tufte has noted that there seem to be only two kinds of people who habitually refer to their customers as "users", namely: drug dealers and technology professionals. That possibly tells us something about the "them and us" mindset of the tech industry. It's not usually meant unkindly but to those outside the tech industry perhaps it can sometimes seem disrespectful. I expect doctors and engineers also say unkind things about their customers in private, it's just that the things said by the tech profession tend to get circulated in public.
...
1 reply by Mohan Kulkarni
May 13, 2020 8:33 AM
Mohan Kulkarni
...
Dear David
Thanks for the reply.
I agree with you that every kind of knowledge is good and needed in that domain. Really speaking emergence of binary language and computers ,man has got a wonderful tool in hand to tackle to handle large data and solve equations of nth order using matrices or other sciences and that too very speedily. so in that sphere the software -Programming knowledge is very important and hence for software projects.
Industrial project are more visible and many times have larger teams comprising members from different knowledge domains, work that needs longer coordination and control to produce the product --- in some corners of these projects also software support is drawn.
Hence I think in present world and also earlier world all projects used knowledge from various domains as required is aptly used to produce the designed /desired product. So knowledge is must for all the projects and also for operations.
All ten wonders of the world are classique examples of the projects delivered using different skills and different knowledges together.. So all knowledges, skills , competencies and workers who have acquired those ---knowledge workers are important for the delivery. Only when required knowledges come together wholeheartedly excellent outcome it results into.
Some times people being human-forget this aspect and start claiming one to be superior than other--which matured beings from all the professions will avoid as a right thing.
Thanks once again for your reply and time .
Look forward to more exchanges.
Warm Regards
Mohan
Saving Changes...
Mohan KulkarniPM Specialist| MBK ConsultantsPune, Maharashtra State. India, India
May 12, 2020 10:18 AM
Replying to Keith Novak
...
It is not at all unusual for people to have biases towards their own chosen profession. After all, people once thought the whole universe revolved around the Earth.
I think however that it would be very difficult to try and convince engineers, machinists, supply chain specialists, health care professionals, and many others that software projects are the only ones requiring applied knowledge throughout their lifecyles. Due to their own biases, they might even consider software as merely a tool to accomplish some greater purpose.
Dear Keith
Thanks for your response.
I do not agree with your understanding that software workers are only knoweledge workers to accomplish something with a greater purpose for following reasons--in my view
1) software is only tool that is very useful for solving complexity in mathematical problems which are logically possible for solving manually but would require tremendous effort and time and there is a possibility of erronious results because of manual limitations of focussed accurate working..
So basically logic , Science or algorithum can only be done by human brain . Software can do coding based on this input from human brain and process is further to get the results.
eg structural problems can be solved by software programs but the basic algorithum is given by the structural mechanics based on finite element analysis, For economic problems the basic theories of economics give the solution to the problems that gets languaged in a program for fast and accurate answers. This is true every where as yet.
As programming needs a knowledge of progranmming the basic sciences and technical methods of anlysies need knowledge of those areas .
It is clear that knowledge of various kinds and from various areas is required and is applied to solve all human problems from several areas of life.
2)If you look at ten wonder projects of the world built before the birth and rise of computer and software ,accomplished in between 18 th century and 450 BC ,all those were created with great purpose in those times and even today stand out extra ordinary even by today's technological capacity standards.eg Taj mahal of India, Panama Canal, Tower of Pisa 1173, Machu Pichu city built in 1450, Great wall of China , Pyramids etc All needed huge technical knowledge , tremendous skills , coordination and organisation ---all these facets are nothing but knowledge
The new empire state building of 110 story was built in 14 months time in 1930-31 --the world largest building without use of computers and software-is a classic example ..
3) since beginning of societal life all projects small or big or large knowledge required for different tasks from different work/skill areas and the coordination and organisation made the projects accomplished..
4) Alone software or alone other engineering or non enginerring knowledge cannot accomplish present day projects or problems
Trust clarifications are worth pondering .
Thanks once again
REgards
Mohan
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2 replies by Keith Novak and Mohan Kulkarni
May 13, 2020 10:32 AM
Keith Novak
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Mohan,
You misunderstood my comment. While some in software may believe they are the only knowledge workers, it is far from being the only profession that involves handling or using information. Knowledge has been used professionally for as long as there have been professions.
Regards,
Keith
May 13, 2020 12:25 PM
Mohan Kulkarni
...
Thanks for clarification.
Regards
mohan
Saving Changes...
Mohan KulkarniPM Specialist| MBK ConsultantsPune, Maharashtra State. India, India
May 12, 2020 4:31 PM
Replying to David Portas
...
Hi Mohan,
Very true and it's a good point. The salient differences between software development and some other activities really have to do with things other than people's knowledge or abilities. For example uncertainty and lack of precision can be definite advantages in software development but you could hardly say the same in the field of mechanical engineering. Self-organising teams, iteratively re-working a product is a fine way to build software but surely less satisfactory for constructing a building. Because many of us are familiar with those differences it would perhaps be easy to think that technology requires greater problem solving or creative skills. That cannot be true, it's just that the skills are different.
Is there a tendency to "belittle" others about it? I don't think I've noticed that. However, Edward Tufte has noted that there seem to be only two kinds of people who habitually refer to their customers as "users", namely: drug dealers and technology professionals. That possibly tells us something about the "them and us" mindset of the tech industry. It's not usually meant unkindly but to those outside the tech industry perhaps it can sometimes seem disrespectful. I expect doctors and engineers also say unkind things about their customers in private, it's just that the things said by the tech profession tend to get circulated in public.
Dear David
Thanks for the reply.
I agree with you that every kind of knowledge is good and needed in that domain. Really speaking emergence of binary language and computers ,man has got a wonderful tool in hand to tackle to handle large data and solve equations of nth order using matrices or other sciences and that too very speedily. so in that sphere the software -Programming knowledge is very important and hence for software projects.
Industrial project are more visible and many times have larger teams comprising members from different knowledge domains, work that needs longer coordination and control to produce the product --- in some corners of these projects also software support is drawn.
Hence I think in present world and also earlier world all projects used knowledge from various domains as required is aptly used to produce the designed /desired product. So knowledge is must for all the projects and also for operations.
All ten wonders of the world are classique examples of the projects delivered using different skills and different knowledges together.. So all knowledges, skills , competencies and workers who have acquired those ---knowledge workers are important for the delivery. Only when required knowledges come together wholeheartedly excellent outcome it results into.
Some times people being human-forget this aspect and start claiming one to be superior than other--which matured beings from all the professions will avoid as a right thing.
Thanks once again for your reply and time .
Look forward to more exchanges.
Warm Regards
Mohan Saving Changes...
Dear Keith
Thanks for your response.
I do not agree with your understanding that software workers are only knoweledge workers to accomplish something with a greater purpose for following reasons--in my view
1) software is only tool that is very useful for solving complexity in mathematical problems which are logically possible for solving manually but would require tremendous effort and time and there is a possibility of erronious results because of manual limitations of focussed accurate working..
So basically logic , Science or algorithum can only be done by human brain . Software can do coding based on this input from human brain and process is further to get the results.
eg structural problems can be solved by software programs but the basic algorithum is given by the structural mechanics based on finite element analysis, For economic problems the basic theories of economics give the solution to the problems that gets languaged in a program for fast and accurate answers. This is true every where as yet.
As programming needs a knowledge of progranmming the basic sciences and technical methods of anlysies need knowledge of those areas .
It is clear that knowledge of various kinds and from various areas is required and is applied to solve all human problems from several areas of life.
2)If you look at ten wonder projects of the world built before the birth and rise of computer and software ,accomplished in between 18 th century and 450 BC ,all those were created with great purpose in those times and even today stand out extra ordinary even by today's technological capacity standards.eg Taj mahal of India, Panama Canal, Tower of Pisa 1173, Machu Pichu city built in 1450, Great wall of China , Pyramids etc All needed huge technical knowledge , tremendous skills , coordination and organisation ---all these facets are nothing but knowledge
The new empire state building of 110 story was built in 14 months time in 1930-31 --the world largest building without use of computers and software-is a classic example ..
3) since beginning of societal life all projects small or big or large knowledge required for different tasks from different work/skill areas and the coordination and organisation made the projects accomplished..
4) Alone software or alone other engineering or non enginerring knowledge cannot accomplish present day projects or problems
Trust clarifications are worth pondering .
Thanks once again
REgards
Mohan
Mohan,
You misunderstood my comment. While some in software may believe they are the only knowledge workers, it is far from being the only profession that involves handling or using information. Knowledge has been used professionally for as long as there have been professions.
Regards,
Keith Saving Changes...
Mohan KulkarniPM Specialist| MBK ConsultantsPune, Maharashtra State. India, India
May 13, 2020 3:49 AM
Replying to Mohan Kulkarni
...
Dear Keith
Thanks for your response.
I do not agree with your understanding that software workers are only knoweledge workers to accomplish something with a greater purpose for following reasons--in my view
1) software is only tool that is very useful for solving complexity in mathematical problems which are logically possible for solving manually but would require tremendous effort and time and there is a possibility of erronious results because of manual limitations of focussed accurate working..
So basically logic , Science or algorithum can only be done by human brain . Software can do coding based on this input from human brain and process is further to get the results.
eg structural problems can be solved by software programs but the basic algorithum is given by the structural mechanics based on finite element analysis, For economic problems the basic theories of economics give the solution to the problems that gets languaged in a program for fast and accurate answers. This is true every where as yet.
As programming needs a knowledge of progranmming the basic sciences and technical methods of anlysies need knowledge of those areas .
It is clear that knowledge of various kinds and from various areas is required and is applied to solve all human problems from several areas of life.
2)If you look at ten wonder projects of the world built before the birth and rise of computer and software ,accomplished in between 18 th century and 450 BC ,all those were created with great purpose in those times and even today stand out extra ordinary even by today's technological capacity standards.eg Taj mahal of India, Panama Canal, Tower of Pisa 1173, Machu Pichu city built in 1450, Great wall of China , Pyramids etc All needed huge technical knowledge , tremendous skills , coordination and organisation ---all these facets are nothing but knowledge
The new empire state building of 110 story was built in 14 months time in 1930-31 --the world largest building without use of computers and software-is a classic example ..
3) since beginning of societal life all projects small or big or large knowledge required for different tasks from different work/skill areas and the coordination and organisation made the projects accomplished..
4) Alone software or alone other engineering or non enginerring knowledge cannot accomplish present day projects or problems
Trust clarifications are worth pondering .
Thanks once again
REgards
Mohan
Thanks for clarification.
Regards
mohan Saving Changes...