Jonathan LeeBusiness Development Manager| Symphony Communication Services LLCSingapore, Singapore, Singapore
What is the difference between the two? From my understanding, Lean is supposed to belong within the Agile framework but then there are obvious differences between Kanban and Scrum. They seem like worlds apart in practice.
One prominent projectmanagement.com webinar speaker (who is well practiced and certified in both) even commented that lean is focused on eliminating waste whereas agile is focused on time to delivery.
Confused. Saving Changes...
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Thomas WalentaGlobal Project Economy ExpertHackenheim, Germany
PMBoK AGP - Agile Practice Guide addendum, describes Lean as an umbrella term for Agile and Kanban, Agile as an umbrella term for Scrum, XP and many others. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
I can write about it because I was part of the team where Agile was born inside the USA DoD/NSF Agility Forum, Leihigh University, 1990. Agile was born as an alternatve to Lean when inside the forum a prospective analysis was made about how the world would be in 2015-2030 and it was noticed that Lean would not be enough to face the future challenges. Both are totally different in the basement, in the foundation. But here comes a reference: http://www.parshift.com/s/140106Technion-AgileVsLeanSE.pdf. What the PMBoK AGP stated is totally wrong, unfortunatelly.
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1 reply by Thomas Walenta
Jun 18, 2020 1:15 PM
Thomas Walenta
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Great resource, Sergio.
I hoped you would chime in with your background.
Wonder if they change the description in PMBoK 7.
And wonder how it got in there in the first place.
Maybe because of the plethora of agile gurus in this area.
Saving Changes...
Thomas WalentaGlobal Project Economy ExpertHackenheim, Germany
Jun 18, 2020 11:30 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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I can write about it because I was part of the team where Agile was born inside the USA DoD/NSF Agility Forum, Leihigh University, 1990. Agile was born as an alternatve to Lean when inside the forum a prospective analysis was made about how the world would be in 2015-2030 and it was noticed that Lean would not be enough to face the future challenges. Both are totally different in the basement, in the foundation. But here comes a reference: http://www.parshift.com/s/140106Technion-AgileVsLeanSE.pdf. What the PMBoK AGP stated is totally wrong, unfortunatelly.
Great resource, Sergio.
I hoped you would chime in with your background.
Wonder if they change the description in PMBoK 7.
And wonder how it got in there in the first place.
Maybe because of the plethora of agile gurus in this area.
...
1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Jun 27, 2020 4:38 PM
Sergio Luis Conte
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The only thing I can say is: I was there, I worked with Rick Dove inside the place where Agile was born: USA DoD/NSF Agility Forum. About the Agile guide as you know nobody was able to contribute to create it (to apply as voluntary and then you could be selected or not) neither it was published for public review. So sad for me, because I had participated in the software extension of the PMBOK and in my personal opinion it was a great resource to undestand how agile approach could be used in software projects. Related to "agile gurus" I think lot of people are making very bad to Agile because most of them talk without not academic basement which was were Agile was born. In software, I have the opportunity to participate in the genesis too and it was inside the OOSPLA and when I was here it was amazing to see how people interact a lot but always to present things from academic and practical perspectives.
Lean thinking originated from the work of Taiichi Ohno at Toyota and spread from manufacturing to multiple domains. A number of the principles underlying lean and agile are similar such as empowerment of those who do the work, the need for management to create an environment/system to enable teams to succeed, visualizing and encouraging flow of work and so on.
Kiron Saving Changes...
Marcus UdokangProject Manager| Aivaz ConsultingCalgary, Alberta, Canada
Amazing resource, @Sergio. Many thanks. This explains lots.
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Jun 27, 2020 4:41 PM
Sergio Luis Conte
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You are welcome. Now that DA seems to be the truth revealed let me say I worked with it from the time when IBM push to create it based on RUP (I worked in IBM) and it found it was the only approach that clearly differentiated Lean from Agile and had solutions from both worlds and for any other approach. Hope it will continue in this path in the future without contamination in the need "to make business".
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Jun 18, 2020 1:15 PM
Replying to Thomas Walenta
...
Great resource, Sergio.
I hoped you would chime in with your background.
Wonder if they change the description in PMBoK 7.
And wonder how it got in there in the first place.
Maybe because of the plethora of agile gurus in this area.
The only thing I can say is: I was there, I worked with Rick Dove inside the place where Agile was born: USA DoD/NSF Agility Forum. About the Agile guide as you know nobody was able to contribute to create it (to apply as voluntary and then you could be selected or not) neither it was published for public review. So sad for me, because I had participated in the software extension of the PMBOK and in my personal opinion it was a great resource to undestand how agile approach could be used in software projects. Related to "agile gurus" I think lot of people are making very bad to Agile because most of them talk without not academic basement which was were Agile was born. In software, I have the opportunity to participate in the genesis too and it was inside the OOSPLA and when I was here it was amazing to see how people interact a lot but always to present things from academic and practical perspectives. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Jun 27, 2020 12:49 PM
Replying to Marcus Udokang
...
Amazing resource, @Sergio. Many thanks. This explains lots.
You are welcome. Now that DA seems to be the truth revealed let me say I worked with it from the time when IBM push to create it based on RUP (I worked in IBM) and it found it was the only approach that clearly differentiated Lean from Agile and had solutions from both worlds and for any other approach. Hope it will continue in this path in the future without contamination in the need "to make business". Saving Changes...
