This probably depends a lot on the industry or kind of activity involved. Lean principles are already widely used in manufacturing whereas agility is perhaps more usually associated with business development, product development and enterprise organisational structure.
In the field of software development there is a close association between lean and agile, if only because lean ideas tend to appeal to technology teams that also adopt agile ideas (and vice versa). Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
In 1990 the USA DoD/NSF Agility Forum was created inside the Leihigh University. The reason was to make a prospective about how the world will be in 2015-2030 and how to deal with the needs to survive, growth and develop in that world. It was because in 1985 approximately a group created and published a paper called "Agile Manufacturing" proposing an alternative to Toyota TPS/Lean model. The Forum was the place were Agile and agility terms were defined, were the model of reference to create agile companies and business were created as an alternative of Lean. Lean provides flexibility, Agile provides agility which are not the same. Agility gives the possibility to be prepare for unplanned and expected changes. No matter that both are based on systemic theory applied to organizations which implies to think in architecture, that´s because the use of transformation. The predicted world in 1990 is the world we are leaving today.
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2 replies by Andrianus Toar Pradaya Lonteng and Keith Novak
Dec 08, 2020 3:52 AM
Andrianus Toar Pradaya Lonteng
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well noted Sergio
Lean : Flexibility
Agile : Agility
to organization its better lean first, after that more mature to agile ?
Or its not related
Dec 08, 2020 9:27 PM
Keith Novak
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Sergio, I don't understand your comment about Lean providing flexibility. In my experience with Lean in both office and manufacturing environments, I see it seeking to eliminate flexibility in how work is performed.
Breaking things down into standard work, kitting, creating right sized tools, process flow mapping, 5S, visual cues, and many other commonly used elements target waste by having one way to do common things.
In what way do you see Lean promoting flexibility?
Many solution approaches have similarities to one another and even share tools and techniques. They're often combined in different ways, have different approaches, and different focus. The same is true with Lean and Agile, however I see one big distinction with the approaches to reducing waste.
Agile approaches are often utilized when problems have a high degree of both complexity, and uncertainty. Trying to plan to far into the future when there are too many unknowns leads to waste, because you will inevitably throw much of the planning away when the solution path diverges from the plan.
By contrast, Lean is often focused on reducing waste in repeatable processes. A small improvement over a process performed many times yields a higher savings. One of the first steps in "leaning" out a process is to establish a repeatable baseline using 5S. Although I've heard different words for the different S'es, standardize is always among them.
Although they are focused on different levels of uncertainty in the solution space, they still can fit well together. For example we may have a standard process, but don't know where the inefficiencies are yet and use agile approaches to identify and lean-out the inefficiencies. Saving Changes...
In 1990 the USA DoD/NSF Agility Forum was created inside the Leihigh University. The reason was to make a prospective about how the world will be in 2015-2030 and how to deal with the needs to survive, growth and develop in that world. It was because in 1985 approximately a group created and published a paper called "Agile Manufacturing" proposing an alternative to Toyota TPS/Lean model. The Forum was the place were Agile and agility terms were defined, were the model of reference to create agile companies and business were created as an alternative of Lean. Lean provides flexibility, Agile provides agility which are not the same. Agility gives the possibility to be prepare for unplanned and expected changes. No matter that both are based on systemic theory applied to organizations which implies to think in architecture, that´s because the use of transformation. The predicted world in 1990 is the world we are leaving today.
well noted Sergio
Lean : Flexibility
Agile : Agility
to organization its better lean first, after that more mature to agile ?
Or its not related
...
1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Dec 08, 2020 5:06 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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In my personal experience both can be used at the same time. For example is the situation in my actual work place where Lean practices were implemented first in manufacturing then Agile practices follow for all the other business units. Both are different things and in fact both are different in essence. That´s the reason you can find things that are calling Lean-Agile or something like that. Basically Lean focus is the flow of the process, Agile focus is architecture where process is a component inside the architecture. If you ask me, based on my personal experience to do this from 1995, I always go with both mainly if I am working in a place where you have manufacturing using some of the Lean concepts. If people are clear about what Lean and Agile means then opportunities for using both are found and the transformation can be done.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Dec 08, 2020 3:52 AM
Replying to Andrianus Toar Pradaya Lonteng
...
well noted Sergio
Lean : Flexibility
Agile : Agility
to organization its better lean first, after that more mature to agile ?
Or its not related
In my personal experience both can be used at the same time. For example is the situation in my actual work place where Lean practices were implemented first in manufacturing then Agile practices follow for all the other business units. Both are different things and in fact both are different in essence. That´s the reason you can find things that are calling Lean-Agile or something like that. Basically Lean focus is the flow of the process, Agile focus is architecture where process is a component inside the architecture. If you ask me, based on my personal experience to do this from 1995, I always go with both mainly if I am working in a place where you have manufacturing using some of the Lean concepts. If people are clear about what Lean and Agile means then opportunities for using both are found and the transformation can be done. Saving Changes...
In 1990 the USA DoD/NSF Agility Forum was created inside the Leihigh University. The reason was to make a prospective about how the world will be in 2015-2030 and how to deal with the needs to survive, growth and develop in that world. It was because in 1985 approximately a group created and published a paper called "Agile Manufacturing" proposing an alternative to Toyota TPS/Lean model. The Forum was the place were Agile and agility terms were defined, were the model of reference to create agile companies and business were created as an alternative of Lean. Lean provides flexibility, Agile provides agility which are not the same. Agility gives the possibility to be prepare for unplanned and expected changes. No matter that both are based on systemic theory applied to organizations which implies to think in architecture, that´s because the use of transformation. The predicted world in 1990 is the world we are leaving today.
Sergio, I don't understand your comment about Lean providing flexibility. In my experience with Lean in both office and manufacturing environments, I see it seeking to eliminate flexibility in how work is performed.
Breaking things down into standard work, kitting, creating right sized tools, process flow mapping, 5S, visual cues, and many other commonly used elements target waste by having one way to do common things.
In what way do you see Lean promoting flexibility?
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Dec 09, 2020 2:48 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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Hi @Keith. Here comes the definitions just to clarify what I am talking about in terms of Flexibility (what Lean provides) vs Agility (what Agile provides). Not my definitions, the definitions taken from the group of the MIT which creates Lean from Toyota TPS and Agility Forum which creates Agile. Beyond the definitions itself it is what I live in both worlds. Flexibility: Be able to respond to already-hypothesized situations. Being flexible leads to success when a predicted event occurs. Agility: Be able respond to a wide variety of unexpected external surprises and create external surprises. Being agile will assist businesses who face unpredictable circumstances.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Dec 08, 2020 9:27 PM
Replying to Keith Novak
...
Sergio, I don't understand your comment about Lean providing flexibility. In my experience with Lean in both office and manufacturing environments, I see it seeking to eliminate flexibility in how work is performed.
Breaking things down into standard work, kitting, creating right sized tools, process flow mapping, 5S, visual cues, and many other commonly used elements target waste by having one way to do common things.
In what way do you see Lean promoting flexibility?
Hi @Keith. Here comes the definitions just to clarify what I am talking about in terms of Flexibility (what Lean provides) vs Agility (what Agile provides). Not my definitions, the definitions taken from the group of the MIT which creates Lean from Toyota TPS and Agility Forum which creates Agile. Beyond the definitions itself it is what I live in both worlds. Flexibility: Be able to respond to already-hypothesized situations. Being flexible leads to success when a predicted event occurs. Agility: Be able respond to a wide variety of unexpected external surprises and create external surprises. Being agile will assist businesses who face unpredictable circumstances. Saving Changes...
