Does anyone have any insight or experience into how to set up/manage projects with clients who think about time differently? For example, I know a consultant who has many Indigenous clients who think about time in a "circular" manner...for them, it's more important to get to the "right" result than it is to meet project deadlines. This causes challenges in both establishing project budgets as well as determining project time lines.
Any insights into how to manage this sort of situation would be greatly appreciated! Saving Changes...
What you described sounds like an Agile approach with iterative, incremental delivery.
"it's more important to get to the "right" result than it is to meet project deadlines"
I guess that's true of every project I have worked on. Success can't be measured simply by meeting a deadline. Saving Changes...
Bibhu PandaSenior Project Manager| Arisglobal pvt ltdBangalore, Karnataka, India
Let me give my 2 cents from my experience in software development. Will you please elaborate on the circular time? With due respect to your consultant friend, I think the clients have got a valid point. This is the dilemma which every project manager faces irrespective of the size of the project. How to deliver the right thing/solution/deliverables within the right time window. In this situation, as per my experience your friend can have the overall deliverable broken to small chunks which are delivered in a time boxed manner after passing through proper check gates. From software development perspective, What I am suggesting here is a mix of the agile and classical model of software development.
Please do let me know if the above approach helps or not. Would be happy to connect and discuss
Warm regards,
Bibhu
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1 reply by Sharon Bond
Jul 03, 2021 12:30 PM
Sharon Bond
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Hi Bibhu. Good question...I'm a very linear thinker so I don't fully understand the concept of circular/cyclical time however: "Under the circular time orientation...time is not perceived as a straight line stretching from the distant past to the far future, but rather, it is seen as a circular system in which the same events are repeated according to some cyclical pattern (Graham 1981)". I think the impact of this way of thinking on a project schedule (which is linear) is that the schedule becomes irrelevant...the work will get done when it "feels" or "seems" right.
Let me give my 2 cents from my experience in software development. Will you please elaborate on the circular time? With due respect to your consultant friend, I think the clients have got a valid point. This is the dilemma which every project manager faces irrespective of the size of the project. How to deliver the right thing/solution/deliverables within the right time window. In this situation, as per my experience your friend can have the overall deliverable broken to small chunks which are delivered in a time boxed manner after passing through proper check gates. From software development perspective, What I am suggesting here is a mix of the agile and classical model of software development.
Please do let me know if the above approach helps or not. Would be happy to connect and discuss
Warm regards,
Bibhu
Hi Bibhu. Good question...I'm a very linear thinker so I don't fully understand the concept of circular/cyclical time however: "Under the circular time orientation...time is not perceived as a straight line stretching from the distant past to the far future, but rather, it is seen as a circular system in which the same events are repeated according to some cyclical pattern (Graham 1981)". I think the impact of this way of thinking on a project schedule (which is linear) is that the schedule becomes irrelevant...the work will get done when it "feels" or "seems" right. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
The objective, milestone/task/deliverable, has to be created and delivered in a specific time. What happens from start to end with time does not matter. Some project managers think that things will occur in the time those things are estimated and it is not true. Let me explain. If from start to end you have a task with X days of duration what matters is to control the relation between elapsed time and remainder work. Time and work are not related in a linear way. Then, for example, if you are in 50% of X and the remainder work is 70% then you have a warning and you have to find an explanation about how the 70% or remainder work will be completed in the 50% of remainder time. When you find it, always in advance, then you can act to remediate it. Time ago I wrote an article on the matter that was published by the PMI and I guess it was useful because it was published for other organizations too. I write articles just to learn from people feedback. Saving Changes...
Each stakeholder has a constraint which they believe is most important. For some, it is time whereas for others quality, scope or cost might rank highest.
The key is to understand where your stakeholders interests lies and to adapt your approach to account for those.
In my own personal experience, Native Americans will often jokingly use the term, "Indian Time" to capture what you're describing. The gathering will begin at 10:00 means that's about when the first people start showing up, any ceremony will begin much later and will probably run later than anticipated also. If there are introductions, some people can literally talk for hours. In general, the quality of the experience is considered more important than the timetable, so things running late is probably an indicator that whatever was occurring was worth the extra time.
A project manager must understand your stakeholders, and you can either try to force conformance to schedule, or you can just plan on needing more buffer. Assume that maximum efficiency is not going to be the top priority from the outset, at least when the client themselves are needed for something.
There are probably some aspects of a project that still require schedule discipline, because your own employees probably won't be working on Indian Time, and delays can be costly. Explain those critical events to the customer, but also expect that the customer is probably going to cause some delays, so don't build your schedule so tight that you can't absorb those delays. Saving Changes...
Thomas WalentaGlobal Project Economy ExpertHackenheim, Germany
Sharon,
interesting you bring up the concepts of linear and circular time perceptions.
Linear time is certainly easy to understand for project managers. It is a mental model and for me it is good if you can switch mntal models as appropriate. It is interesting that this perception has only been moved to the mainstream of mental models with renaissance and the spread of individualism, so 500 years back. It led to growth thinking, enforced competition (win-lose) and promoted individualism in contrast to humans being social creatures.
In contrast, circular thinking is the very natural way to look at time, humans did that for thousands of years. Nature is made up of cyclic behaviours, day and night, four seasons, grow and decease, birth and death. Living in the moment and not bothering about the past and fearing the future is based on circular thinking. And much more.
For project management, from Barry W. Boehm's cyclic project model published in 1988, to Scrum's iterations, even critical chain method and accepting permanent change, circular thinking has always been part of the body of knowledge.
Learning about it means to learn new mindsets, not only new PM methods. A good book to start with is 'Team Human' by Douglas Rushkoff.
Interesting challenge, Sharon..
I agree with Thomas when he implies learning new mindsets, in fact for many of us it could be a paradigm shift turning concepts learnt during academic studies and on projects alike.
To start with, my thrust would be on getting the Client on the same page vis-a-vis the 'There is no perfect world' line of thinking related to the "right" (doable right and not impossibly perfect) results from the Practical World.
Secondly, Budgets and Timelines have to be deliverable-based where the WBS and stage-gate level deliverables would play a major role in determining successful outcomes (much of it outlined by Bibhu already). Assuming it's a fixed fee model, staggered invoicing (deliverable based most probably as compared to effort based) works best for both parties as most of us know.
Thirdly, Dependencies, especially those on Client personnel, have to be given adequate importance and proper Risk mitigation needs to be done with buy-in from all concerned.
I think most other things should work out once these foundational pillars are in place.
Thank you, all, for your thoughts and input! @ThomasWalenta, I also believe a shift in mindset (of some sort, I"m not sure what that looks like, yet) is needed. Thank you for the book you suggested. @KironBondale, you're suggestion to align with the client on the key contraint(s) makes a lot of sense and allows for the discussion upfront.. And @KeithNovak, the perspective of "Indian Time" and focusing on the critical events is very helpful and can allow some sense of structure but hopefully not cramp the intent around relationship-building and "getting it right".
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1 reply by Ashish Vijay Borikar
Jul 07, 2021 1:42 AM
Ashish Vijay Borikar
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@Sharon, I'd appreciate if you could let us know if your acquaintance, the consultant was successful with the whole scenario and how he/she achieved (or in the process of achieving if WIP) it. If you could share any update/s as and when possible.
Thank you, all, for your thoughts and input! @ThomasWalenta, I also believe a shift in mindset (of some sort, I"m not sure what that looks like, yet) is needed. Thank you for the book you suggested. @KironBondale, you're suggestion to align with the client on the key contraint(s) makes a lot of sense and allows for the discussion upfront.. And @KeithNovak, the perspective of "Indian Time" and focusing on the critical events is very helpful and can allow some sense of structure but hopefully not cramp the intent around relationship-building and "getting it right".
@Sharon, I'd appreciate if you could let us know if your acquaintance, the consultant was successful with the whole scenario and how he/she achieved (or in the process of achieving if WIP) it. If you could share any update/s as and when possible. Saving Changes...
