Hi everybody, can someone in Canada please comment on this subject? Others can comment as well, but I only mentioned Canada because there are some who might be more familiar with the situation here. I hope I have the right page.
Anyway, I'm in the market for work due to Covid, and I'm finding that titles of say, Project Coordinator, Project Administrator, etc, are used interchangeably and even arbitrarily, when the requirements of the job do not relate to project work as we know it. This causes a person to spend quite a bit of time sifting through them to find something suitable. You want to ask for what you're worth in experience and training, especially since companies tend not to want to reveal their budget. Advice anyone? Thinking of pursuing certification for Agile, but if additional education will not make much difference, then I'd rather learn a whole new discipline. Saving Changes...
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Hope
You will always find roles that are used interchangeably, not only in Canada but globally so you need to dig into the details of the Responsibilities and Accountabilities for each role. While it is not convenient, unfortunately that is the case especially these days.
On the "asking for you're worth", I didn't quite understand what you meant ?
As for certifications, they are merely a proof of deep knowledge in a specific topic and will be most valuable if combined with first hand experience. Without experience, certifications do not carry much value to employers.
To add to Rami's feedback I'd say that a lot has to do with the relative organizational PM maturity. In lower maturity organizations, there does tend to be more inconsistency in such job titles relative to their descriptions as well as what they choose to call projects.
Kiron
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2 replies by Hope Barrow
Jul 19, 2021 10:27 AM
Hope Barrow
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Thank you for your comments, Rami. I do understand what you're saying and I do read the responsibilities and accountabilities, but I will certainly be more discriminating when choosing the jobs I apply for. I have almost 18 years experience in project management and was certified PMP in 2013. When I talk about asking for what I'm worth, I mean the salary range for the positions that I would apply for. Some of the jobs that ask for the experience and certification are paying near entry level salaries.
Jul 19, 2021 10:33 AM
Hope Barrow
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Hello Kiron, thanks for your comments also. I agree with what you said about organizational PM maturity and what some companies choose to call projects. It's really important to include that in the evaluation of which company you will apply to. Have a wonderful day!
To add to Rami's feedback I'd say that a lot has to do with the relative organizational PM maturity. In lower maturity organizations, there does tend to be more inconsistency in such job titles relative to their descriptions as well as what they choose to call projects.
Kiron
Thank you for your comments, Rami. I do understand what you're saying and I do read the responsibilities and accountabilities, but I will certainly be more discriminating when choosing the jobs I apply for. I have almost 18 years experience in project management and was certified PMP in 2013. When I talk about asking for what I'm worth, I mean the salary range for the positions that I would apply for. Some of the jobs that ask for the experience and certification are paying near entry level salaries.
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Jul 19, 2021 12:42 PM
Rami Kaibni
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Hope
Unfortunately, you are right. I see lots of companies looking for experienced professionals while offering entry level annual compensation. It is very disappointing.
I am not sure if this will change anytime soon but with the shortage in skilled and experienced professionals, you might see an upward shift in pay in 2022 or at least, I hope so.
Even the annual increments are not in line with the crazy inflation.
To add to Rami's feedback I'd say that a lot has to do with the relative organizational PM maturity. In lower maturity organizations, there does tend to be more inconsistency in such job titles relative to their descriptions as well as what they choose to call projects.
Kiron
Hello Kiron, thanks for your comments also. I agree with what you said about organizational PM maturity and what some companies choose to call projects. It's really important to include that in the evaluation of which company you will apply to. Have a wonderful day!
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Jul 19, 2021 10:27 AM
Replying to Hope Barrow
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Thank you for your comments, Rami. I do understand what you're saying and I do read the responsibilities and accountabilities, but I will certainly be more discriminating when choosing the jobs I apply for. I have almost 18 years experience in project management and was certified PMP in 2013. When I talk about asking for what I'm worth, I mean the salary range for the positions that I would apply for. Some of the jobs that ask for the experience and certification are paying near entry level salaries.
Hope
Unfortunately, you are right. I see lots of companies looking for experienced professionals while offering entry level annual compensation. It is very disappointing.
I am not sure if this will change anytime soon but with the shortage in skilled and experienced professionals, you might see an upward shift in pay in 2022 or at least, I hope so.
Even the annual increments are not in line with the crazy inflation.
Rami, this is unfortunate indeed. Anyway, I will plod on in the search. Thanks to everybody that stopped from their busy day to actually share their thoughts with me. I really appreciate it.
Regarding asking for what you are worth based on experience and skills without knowing the oraganization's budget...
In the U.S., I gave them a salary range. On the low end, was the lowest I would be willing to accept, and the high end was my guess as to what the maximum they were willing to pay.
It's not always the best strategy because a company might go for the low end. I had that happen once out of 4 interviews where the conversation came to the point of salary and benefits. However, the company was known for giving $10k-$20k bonuses depending on quality of work for the year. That was the one differentiating factor between them and the others I interviewed with.
There was once or twice when I went too high, but those gave me a sense of what the market would bear.
In short, there are trade offs. If they are giving you a lower rate, maybe they have better benefits. Sometimes hiring managers are willing to bump up the rate a bit higher if there is a skill that you have that really differentiates you from your potential peers.
As a final point (and I know you are seeing something similar), it does take a little digging to see what the market will bear. Even in the U.S. job titles can mean one thing in one organization and something else in another. In my previous org, I was a Project Manager, sometimes was called a Program Manager, and sometimes a Project Lead. In other parts of the organization, Project Coordinators are called Project Managers in private industry. I had to work with a career services company, that specializes in DC, to help translate my organization's title to the title used by the industry I planned to work in. Sometimes we didn't quite hit the mark (i.e. a Portfolio means PMO in some places), but I ended up in a good place despite that.
V/R,
Mary
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1 reply by Hope Barrow
Jan 18, 2022 2:52 PM
Hope Barrow
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Hi Mary! Thanks for responding :), even though my question was from so long ago. I completely understand what you're saying. The salaries in Canada, at least in Ontario, tend to be less than in the US though...from what I hear. And indeed the titles do not necessarily describe the responsibilities of the function of the job. I have taken all that has been said into consideration from the various responses from you kind people, and since I'm still not satisfied in my position, I'm still looking around. I know you wish me well. :) Trying to decide on a new skill that will differentiate me from the pack. Keep safe and be well.
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