Project Management

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NOHELY COLINA Lider de Proyecto| PETROPIAR Lecheria, Anzoategui, Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of)
I am a bit confused with the guide (new PMBOK7), don't we start, plan, execute and close?
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Sergio Luis Conte Helping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based Organizations Buenos Aires, Argentina
My personal opinion after working with the PMI in the creation of all the standards from more than 10 years ago: this PMBOK version It is the most useless thing that I have seen. Including it with that version lot of disciplines domains are out of the game. With that said, I hope I do not have all the information about why this strategy has been taken. I guess it is because it will be a fusion between DA and Guide then this is a transition. In my personal opinion, unfortunately people will not use this version of the PMBOK at all.
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1 reply by NOHELY COLINA
Jul 19, 2021 8:27 PM
NOHELY COLINA
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Thank you Sergio for sharing your opinion.
How to use this guide to manage a project? Where do you start? I'm lost
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NOHELY COLINA Lider de Proyecto| PETROPIAR Lecheria, Anzoategui, Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of)
Jul 19, 2021 6:24 PM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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My personal opinion after working with the PMI in the creation of all the standards from more than 10 years ago: this PMBOK version It is the most useless thing that I have seen. Including it with that version lot of disciplines domains are out of the game. With that said, I hope I do not have all the information about why this strategy has been taken. I guess it is because it will be a fusion between DA and Guide then this is a transition. In my personal opinion, unfortunately people will not use this version of the PMBOK at all.
Thank you Sergio for sharing your opinion.
How to use this guide to manage a project? Where do you start? I'm lost
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2 replies by Greta Blash and Sergio Luis Conte
Jul 20, 2021 8:22 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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I will not use this guide at all. It has no sense. Just to comment, I was part of other groups such as Scrum Guide or DSDM creation or IIBA BABOK creation and in a point this type of things have been debated. I mean to create or not things based on principles only. And in some cases the change was the start to "take an organization out of the market". Mainly because the final result was inapplicable for lot of domains. Principles stated in new PMBOK sounds like a joke in the context that most of the people will agree with that. Nothing new. But to apply them or not is a matter of context . If you need need more abstraction to define the project management process then you can find it inside the Context Outline document which is used to create the exam questions and exists from long time ago. In a point, I agree with @Thomas comment about this version can be consider a defensive move. The key thing here is to define if a guide is something that can be used in strategy, tactic or technical field inside the organizations. In this case, in my humble opinion, the new PMBOK is in the middle of everything and in the case I think is unusable. Now, I understand why there was not a public review of the guide and why lot of people were not accepted as author or reviewer. In my humble opinion the PMI has to start the process to explain how the new guide can be used with other components inside the PMI literature to apply it at all levels at least in critical domains like construction, health, etc. In software, it is obvious because unfortunately in the last years, starting for the agile guide, the PMI work has a lot of focus in that domain.
Jul 29, 2021 1:50 PM
Greta Blash
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This guide was not meant to teach you basic project management but rather understand the mindset of leadership and value delivery. There are many ways to "manage" a project - but all has to be determined based on the context of the project. This was mentioned in the 6th edition, and there were tailoring concepts which unfortunately no one reads - They just start at chapter 4 to learn the 49 processes - which are not always applicable - and never performed exactly as laid out.
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Rami Kaibni
Community Champion
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten Associates New Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Nohely

I think you should use this new version of the guide in conjunction with the 6th edition. The 7th edition doesn't replace the previous one at least in this release. This is my opinion.

RK
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2 replies by NOHELY COLINA
Jul 20, 2021 10:17 PM
NOHELY COLINA
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Ok ok, thats good point! So I have to still use The 6th edition . PMBOK7 doesn't replace the previous one . I mean... if I were someone starting the profession, where I have find the guide to follow for accomplish a project first time?
Jul 20, 2021 10:18 PM
NOHELY COLINA
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Thanks Rami Kaibni, I really appreciate your help!
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Thomas Walenta Global Project Economy Expert Hackenheim, Germany
Agree with the scepticism of my valued colleagues Sergio and Rami.

I do not think that ed 7 can be used as the base of organisational PM methods as previous edition have. So the value of ed 7 for organisations has lowered (2nd most important stakeholder dissatisfied).

Organizations look for methods and process. Methods normally include steps, sequences and interdependencies which have been widely eliminated and also cannot be found easily (if at all) in PMstandards+.

I do not share Sergio's hope that there is a wider forward strategy beneath this new concept. I rather think it was a defensive move to tackle some of the problems with ed 6 like size, inclusion of agile, changes of ISO to principles and more, quickly.

Well, for PMP exam takers it gets more difficult. In the past, relying on PMBoK gave you a good chance of passing although the ECO is leading (but was aligned with PMBoK). Now the PMBoK is totally different from ECO and candidates have no chance reading ed 6 AND 7, as Rami suggests. (1st most important stakeholder dissatisfied).

Thomas
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1 reply by NOHELY COLINA
Jul 20, 2021 10:26 PM
NOHELY COLINA
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Thomas..Thank you! that was I thought ..this statement its a key point :

"Organizations look for methods and process. Methods normally include steps, sequences and interdependencies which have been widely eliminated and also cannot be found easily (if at all) in PMstandards+."

I did ,explore the PMstandards+ , I found for some topics , It brought to me Guide6th 's process !!.

¿Where Dou you recomend to start if I try to teach someoneelse about proyect Management based on PMI approach?
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Kiron Bondale Retired | Mentor| Retired Welland, Ontario, Canada
Take a look at section 2.3 of the Seventh Edition which is the Development Approach and Life Cycle Performance Domain. That specifically calls out different approaches to delivering the scope of a project including how different phases might interact.

Kiron
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Thomas Walenta Global Project Economy Expert Hackenheim, Germany
Hi Kiron,

yes, 2.3 is a good chapter in ed7 to explain the project workflow, regarding the product or industry.

In ed6 this is explained in 1.2.4, shorter, and in addition it refers to the workflow for the project manager and team, the PM processes, which are seen in PMBoK since 1996 as separate from life cycles (otherwise we could not try to see PM as a industry agnostic knowledge and capability). Good further example of this is Integration management.

I understood that Nohely asked for this PM related workflow which I did not yet find in ed7.

Thomas
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1 reply by NOHELY COLINA
Jul 20, 2021 10:32 PM
NOHELY COLINA
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Exactly, thanks again!
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Abolfazl Yousefi Darestani Manager, Quality and Continuous Improvement| Hörmann-TNR Industrial Doors Newmarket, Ontario, Canada
We may need to get used to this. Do not get me wrong. I am not saying the new approach is worse or better. I am saying get used to something makes it the best one in our mind!
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2 replies by NOHELY COLINA
Jul 20, 2021 10:36 PM
NOHELY COLINA
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Okay, I understand. Thank you.
What I want to understand is how to use what we have to start a project in real life. I work with different projects, different life cycles. I also teach new project managers and I'm trying to understand and put the puzzle together.
Jul 20, 2021 11:08 PM
NOHELY COLINA
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Thank you Abolfazl Yousefi Darestani.
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Sergio Luis Conte Helping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based Organizations Buenos Aires, Argentina
Jul 19, 2021 8:27 PM
Replying to NOHELY COLINA
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Thank you Sergio for sharing your opinion.
How to use this guide to manage a project? Where do you start? I'm lost
I will not use this guide at all. It has no sense. Just to comment, I was part of other groups such as Scrum Guide or DSDM creation or IIBA BABOK creation and in a point this type of things have been debated. I mean to create or not things based on principles only. And in some cases the change was the start to "take an organization out of the market". Mainly because the final result was inapplicable for lot of domains. Principles stated in new PMBOK sounds like a joke in the context that most of the people will agree with that. Nothing new. But to apply them or not is a matter of context . If you need need more abstraction to define the project management process then you can find it inside the Context Outline document which is used to create the exam questions and exists from long time ago. In a point, I agree with @Thomas comment about this version can be consider a defensive move. The key thing here is to define if a guide is something that can be used in strategy, tactic or technical field inside the organizations. In this case, in my humble opinion, the new PMBOK is in the middle of everything and in the case I think is unusable. Now, I understand why there was not a public review of the guide and why lot of people were not accepted as author or reviewer. In my humble opinion the PMI has to start the process to explain how the new guide can be used with other components inside the PMI literature to apply it at all levels at least in critical domains like construction, health, etc. In software, it is obvious because unfortunately in the last years, starting for the agile guide, the PMI work has a lot of focus in that domain.
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1 reply by NOHELY COLINA
Jul 20, 2021 10:55 PM
NOHELY COLINA
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Sergio,

Just for those of us who run organizations, I would like to be clear about this:

"The key thing here is to define if a guide is something that can be used in strategy, tactic or technical field inside the organizations"

thanks !
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Israrul Haque Salmiya, Ha, Kuwait
Why Confused, its a perfect time to start, plan, execute and close.
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1 reply by NOHELY COLINA
Jul 20, 2021 10:50 PM
NOHELY COLINA
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Thank you Israrul. ¿For you using this 7 guide , its clear follow a init-planning-execution-check strategy for accomplish any project?
Regards (without the guide or other reference documents)
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Aaron Porter
Community Champion
IT Director| Blade HQ Payson, UT, United States
I haven't finished reviewing v7, yet, but looking at the graphic on page xiii, I'm okay with changing the emphasis from the 5 process groups to 12 project management principles. Coworkers have gotten upset with me because I don't treat the process groups as phases.

Yes, I use Initiation, Planning, Executing, and Closing as phases on some projects, but Monitoring & Controlling is not a distinct phase. This process group represents processes that are performed across all phases.

Peers have also tried to argue with me because I treat the PMBOK Guide as a guide, not a bible; information in the PMBOK should be scaled based on the needs of the project and organization. I've led a few successful projects, and none of them needed the PMBOK Guide to be applied 100%. Trying to do so probably would have killed the schedule.

My point, if there is one, is that the PMBOK is a Guide; it doesn't change your project lifecycle. Understand what is in it so that you can determine which parts you need for your projects. Another way to think of it might be a philosophy that influences my approach to new situations: understand the rules and the reasons for them, so you know which rules you can safely break and how to apply the rules you need.
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1 reply by NOHELY COLINA
Jul 20, 2021 11:04 PM
NOHELY COLINA
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Aaron,
,
I totally agree with you that PMBOK is not the bible, and you could tailor your project to the specific process and method and techniques you need. No problem with that at all.
I have managed hybrid, agile, predictive (oil and gas) projects and have adjusted the processes according to the need of the organization and the project.
My confusion is about the use of the guide, could be it used as the base of organisational PM methods ?
Thank !
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