Aaron,
,
I totally agree with you that PMBOK is not the bible, and you could tailor your project to the specific process and method and techniques you need. No problem with that at all.
I have managed hybrid, agile, predictive (oil and gas) projects and have adjusted the processes according to the need of the organization and the project.
My confusion is about the use of the guide, could be it used as the base of organisational PM methods ?
Thank !
Which part of v6 do you use as the base of organizational PM methods, today?
I brought up that there is a difference between phases and process groups because you asked the question, "...don't we start, plan, execute, and close?" We do, and this hasn't changed.
I'm glad you brought up tailoring. The following information, from v7, is similar to information contained in v6.
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In the Glossary, p. 245 - "Project Life Cycle. The series of phases that a project passes through from its start to completion."
Deciding on a life cycle and the phases of the life cycle is an example of tailoring. p.134
Section 3.5, Tailoring the Performance Domains, begins on page 145. On page 148, in 3.5.3, Development Approach and Life Cycle, the following questions are presented as questions you should ask when tailoring a project life cycle.
- What is an appropriate life cycle for this specific project?
- What phases should comprise the project life cycle?
On page 170, 4.2.7.4 Process Groups, "Groups of processes are not project phases. The Process Groups interact within each phase of a project life cycle. It is possible that all of these processes could occur within a single phase. Processes may be iterated within a phase or life cycle."
_____
Both versions emphasize life cycles. Neither version defines which phases a project should have. In both versions, you define the life cycle, the phases, and when to start, plan, execute, and close the project.
So, yes, I think v7 can be used as a foundation in the same sense as v6. A foundation is something you build upon, not the definitive source of all things project management. That being said, I have not compared both versions to identify what is "not" in v7 that was in v6. If there is something in v6 that you need, I doubt PMI would have a problem with using it. Saving Changes...
NOHELY COLINALider de Proyecto| PETROPIARLecheria, Anzoategui, Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of)
Jul 21, 2021 5:45 AM
Replying to Thomas Walenta
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Nohely, I share your confusion.
The 'PMI approach' seems to me a bit more fuzzy with ed7 and ed6 still recommended by some. PMPs should learn along ECO, now different from both, not helpful. Also isolated offerings for starting with PM like Kickoff or PM Ready (by PMIEF) seem not be fully aligned with either PMBoK edition nor the ECO. DA comes on top with its own approach. Also the 3 upcoming construction certs do.
So, I conclude there is no single PMI approach for projects anymore. And - yes - I am still struggling what to show to my students. One option is the PMP ATP course deck, which is not available publicly.
Thomas, I really apreciatte your shared points. thank you!! Saving Changes...
NOHELY COLINALider de Proyecto| PETROPIARLecheria, Anzoategui, Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of)
Jul 20, 2021 11:04 PM
Replying to NOHELY COLINA
...
Aaron,
,
I totally agree with you that PMBOK is not the bible, and you could tailor your project to the specific process and method and techniques you need. No problem with that at all.
I have managed hybrid, agile, predictive (oil and gas) projects and have adjusted the processes according to the need of the organization and the project.
My confusion is about the use of the guide, could be it used as the base of organisational PM methods ?
Thank !
Thank you Aaron for taking the time to detail the key pages and sections of guide 7. I have re-read them, I got your point.
"Both versions emphasize life cycles. Neither version defines which phases a project should have. In both versions, you define the life cycle, the phases, and when to start, plan, execute, and close the project"
I have no confusion between the projet phases, or PLC, or process group. Its pretty clear to me.
What probably scare me its using two guides and sure three (agile guide) . Especially when you have to create material to teach new leaders, directors, or digital project managers. ...new times..new waves! Thanks again, keep in touch! I would like to continue sharing experiences in the use of v7. Saving Changes...
Sylvie EdwardsProfessor/Program coordinator| Durham College (DC)Whitby, Ontario, Canada
Okay so here how this is suppose to go. I will hopefully answer and take care of some of the comments above.
With version 6 PMI started seperating the Standard portion (i.e. processes, KA, process groups) into its own thing. So yes we still plan, execute... That Standard is an ISO/ANSI standard and governed a bit differently now. What is is the Body of Knowledge v7 are best practices which have been totally redesigned to be competency based and not KA based any longer. This is the largest change that I have seen. At the same time, there is a more important more to integrate Agile by more than 50 % into the materials.
PMI never keeps two versions of a standard alive at the same time. So after a while, version 6 is going to go away. I am thinking that this will happen when the PMP exam is more aligned with the new version. For now, people studying for the PMP exam are told to use both v6 and v7.
As soon as I saw the draft version I pleaded for someone to make sure that this Standard / Body of Knowledge seperation was better explained as I knew people would get confused.
What I tell my students is that we will always need to plan, have a schedule and a budget but the methodologies that we use, how we go about it as well as the tools will need to be tailored and will vary from project to project potentially to give us more flexibility or true agility (not the methodology).
I'm guessing that a lot of people didn't read far enough to learn about
PMIStandards+ with the material that they feel is missing.
It isn't missing; it is in a more interactive mode of delivery! Saving Changes...
Thomas WalentaGlobal Project Economy ExpertHackenheim, Germany
Well, I did not read everything in ed7 yet and do not have a good overview about PMIStandards+. So far, I miss
- ed6 Chapter 4 Integration Management, providing a set of 7 PM processes (or call them activities) to be found in EVERY project including a logical sequence. Those can be seen as the backbone of projects, besides the lifecycle which is dependent of the product.
- a clear distinction between PM activities and SME activities to create the product. This was one of the cornerstones of PMBoK for 20+ years, enabling the view that PM is industry- and product-agnostic.
- a guidance thru PMStandards+, it seems to me a compendium of unstructured knowledge, a black hole. You can find many things except the context.
Thomas
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Jul 29, 2021 7:13 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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Chapeau Mr Walenta, mainly for the last paragraph above.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Jul 29, 2021 6:47 AM
Replying to Thomas Walenta
...
Well, I did not read everything in ed7 yet and do not have a good overview about PMIStandards+. So far, I miss
- ed6 Chapter 4 Integration Management, providing a set of 7 PM processes (or call them activities) to be found in EVERY project including a logical sequence. Those can be seen as the backbone of projects, besides the lifecycle which is dependent of the product.
- a clear distinction between PM activities and SME activities to create the product. This was one of the cornerstones of PMBoK for 20+ years, enabling the view that PM is industry- and product-agnostic.
- a guidance thru PMStandards+, it seems to me a compendium of unstructured knowledge, a black hole. You can find many things except the context.
Thomas
Chapeau Mr Walenta, mainly for the last paragraph above. Saving Changes...
Greta BlashSpeaker|Author|Project Management and Business Analyst Professional| Facilitated MethodsEscondido, Nv, United States
Jul 19, 2021 8:27 PM
Replying to NOHELY COLINA
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Thank you Sergio for sharing your opinion.
How to use this guide to manage a project? Where do you start? I'm lost
This guide was not meant to teach you basic project management but rather understand the mindset of leadership and value delivery. There are many ways to "manage" a project - but all has to be determined based on the context of the project. This was mentioned in the 6th edition, and there were tailoring concepts which unfortunately no one reads - They just start at chapter 4 to learn the 49 processes - which are not always applicable - and never performed exactly as laid out. Saving Changes...
Greta BlashSpeaker|Author|Project Management and Business Analyst Professional| Facilitated MethodsEscondido, Nv, United States
If you want to learn to be an author or a journalist - do you just read the dictionary? You learn by practicing, reviewing and reading other authors. For projects, you learn by being on a team, working and observing other project managers, and always focusing on the vision of the customer and the value and benefits provided. There is no one recipe for that
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2 replies by NOHELY COLINA and Thomas Walenta
Jul 29, 2021 3:03 PM
NOHELY COLINA
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Thanks, Pretty agree!
Jul 29, 2021 4:41 PM
Thomas Walenta
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Well, Greta, I learned for myself, as one of those accidental PMs, facing teams and customers and not having coaches or someone to ask for help. Lone wolf during many of my 33 years as PM.
I learned knowledge thru a PMBoK Guide 1996 followed by 6 editions. I gained experience in how to use that knowledge, making mistakes and networking in the PMI Chapter. Furthermore by teaching others since 20 years. Yes, sometimes I watched others and learned from them. There is more than one way to improve and not everybody enjoys the luxory of being embedded in a sharing team.
And journalists need to learn their professional basics like PMs do, understanding the ethics, the laws, the processes how to find sources, tell stories and follow thru with commitments. None of that you find in a dictionary.
A BoK has nothing to do with a dictionary.
Thomas
Saving Changes...
NOHELY COLINALider de Proyecto| PETROPIARLecheria, Anzoategui, Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of)
Jul 29, 2021 1:56 PM
Replying to Greta Blash
...
If you want to learn to be an author or a journalist - do you just read the dictionary? You learn by practicing, reviewing and reading other authors. For projects, you learn by being on a team, working and observing other project managers, and always focusing on the vision of the customer and the value and benefits provided. There is no one recipe for that
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