Russell GeakeProject Management Consultant| Deciduous Partners LtdLostwithiel, Cornwall, United Kingdom
here's a thought: if cats and dogs have their respective year values 1 human year = 7 cat years and 5 dog years I think. Flying hours are a 1:1 relationship because you can only fly one plane at a time...but if a PM has been managing 12 projects simultaneously for 4 months does that mean they have gained 4 Project Years' experience?
If that logic is true then I think I have over 200 years experience - which aint bad, how about you? Does anyone claim a millenium?
Elizabeth HarrinDirector| RebelsGuideToPM.comLondon, England, United Kingdom
Isn't there a distinction between elapsed time and effort? You might be able to juggle 12 projects over 4 months but at each given moment you are only managing 1 project (I hope). So in my opinion the logic doesn't stack up - but nice try!! Saving Changes...
Russell GeakeProject Management Consultant| Deciduous Partners LtdLostwithiel, Cornwall, United Kingdom
are you sure, Elizabeth? Go on, try it on yourself, how many years would you rack up? Of course, we then go on to the quantity/quality debate...
p.s. hope you had fun in Dublin, were you wearing your gantt-T? :) Saving Changes...
Wai Mun KooPMO Director| Intergraph PP&MSingapore, Singapore
Interesting question. I agree with Elizabeth. At any moment, you are only focused working on one project although you might have several projects in hands. I believe the difference is how you phrase the question and the angle at which you are looking at - duration (years of project experience) vs. work done (project years). Saving Changes...
Elizabeth HarrinDirector| RebelsGuideToPM.comLondon, England, United Kingdom
Hi Russell
No, I didn't take my Gantthead T-shirt with me! I saw someone with one of Peter Taylor's Lazy Project Manager badges though.
Saving Changes...
Karl CordnerProject Manager| IndependantGwent, United Kingdom
hello,
12 projects each lasting 4 months.... I guess it would depend on the type of project and the projects' environments. If they are all similar then the calulation could just be 4 months of experience repeated 12 times.
I don't think repetition scores the same as a whole new experience, for instance, building a tower block and then building another tower block in the same town would not increase your depth of PM experience in the same was as building a tower block and then building a road in a different state....
On the CV I read this morning, I see that the consultant has gained a total of 223 years experience after completing a degree in computer science. Perhaps he really did graduate in the year Australia was founded, or is he a workaholic with a time machine?
It might help explain why its so hard to get a sensible estimate out of so many people. Anyone who can fit 223 years of actual effort into 30 or so years elapsed time......
Saving Changes...
Sam MotesManager II Business Sys, Operational Excellence| BA Systems Inc.Ellenton, Fl, United States
The volume of projects being juggled at the same time though is an important point. A PM leading 1-2 projects at a time versus one leading 12 projects at the same time may not have the coordination skills of the second PM. Then again, the first PM could have much more demanding projects. All depends on how you spin it I guess. Saving Changes...
I agree with Sam. Another good example is one Project Manager could be leading just 1 multi-million project where as another PM is leading 12 smaller projects [by the way far too many usually up to 5 projects is the manageable standard] with less complexities and project value as determined by the organisation - accepted it all comes down to experience the question I would ask which projects will give you the best exposure, challenge and reward! the 12 small projects or the multi-million project! Saving Changes...
Russell GeakeProject Management Consultant| Deciduous Partners LtdLostwithiel, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Sorry I haven't been on here for a while - I'll leave you tp guess why - and I'd actually forgotten about starting this thread - the reason being that I now feel like I am about 486 years old! :)
There are some interesting new comments - what I can't get my head round is that Toby Arnold was actually reading a CV where someone stated this as a measure! That is funny.
Another way to look at it of course is all that time in water-cooler discussion, driving (or stuck in traffic) should be deducted from the total project effort. Saving Changes...
David MorganProject Manager| Experian PLCGrantham, United Kingdom
I can't speak for anyone else, but a lot of time when driving to work or travelling I am thinking about project management activities, reviewing work documents (obviously not when driving), listening to PM podcasts. So I would see much non-at-work time (including water cooler time) as being very much part of my PM experience.
In my last role ,we worked with the EC who funded the projects and on claim forms, any form of focus on the project - whether that was at work or sitting in the garden thinking about the project on a sunday - was 'eligible' if it was perceived to add value to the project.
And here lies the rub. Forget PMI qualification definitions of 'experience'....what is real, genuine PM experience? Is mindlessly compiling slide decks each week adding valuable experience? Is juggling ten projects with diminishing returns and running around like a lunatic to keep all the plates spinning adding worthwhile experience? I suggest that much of our jobs (well, any job - not just PM) doesn't really add valuable experience. It is those periods where we are working closely with stakeholders, resolving issues, using soft-skills and leading/motivating that I think add the real value of experience.
And the pareto principle probably applies here too, so I'd be tempted to divide any experience in elapsed-time by 5 to get a more accurate picture, although wouldn't recommend this approach for a CV! Saving Changes...
