Project Management

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Application for the integral project life cycle.

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Carlos Urtasun Project Manager (PMP - PMOCP)| Atecna Zizur Mayor, Navarra, Spain
Hello.

In my labor like project management consultant I find that some companies works separately with different applications the project life cycle.
This approach has some advantages because allows to explode the features of each application. In this way the companies use some applications to define the scope of the project (Word, JIRA Confluence...), to plan (WBS Schedule Pro, MS Project...), to monitor the execution (Trello, Planner...), etc.
The main disadvantage is the gap of integration of these different environment.
In your opinion: what's the best application or application suite to manage integrally a project, focusing mainly in a) plan and b) execution monitoring?

Best regards,
Carlos
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Kiron Bondale Retired | Mentor| Retired Welland, Ontario, Canada
Carlos -

There is no "best" - it really depends on the project's context, the industry you operate in, and what constraints exist.

I've never found a single platform which is able to handle the full end-to-end aspects of delivery. While there are comprehensive EPM solutions, they usually lack product lifecycle capabilities which are also needed by the team.

Some degree of integration is inevitable - for example, with your HR systems for understanding the organization structure and with your financial systems for reducing the manual effort involved with updating cost actuals.

Kiron
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1 reply by Carlos Urtasun
Jan 05, 2022 3:21 PM
Carlos Urtasun
...
Hi Kiron.

I agree with you that a complete suite probably doesn't exist.
I have made some years ago a prospection of these kind of applications: CA Project & Portfolio Management, Sciforma, Talaia PPM, Kanbanize, Changepoint Daptiv...
And finally, on the one hand the cost of a suite was a little expensive or, on the other hand, the features wasn't enough.

In my opinion the applications that manages correctly the state of the execution of the work packages doesn't have features to plan complex projects.
And the applications that make easy a complex planification has a lack in team communication.

For this reason I ask for the opinion of other professionals like you.
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Carlos Urtasun Project Manager (PMP - PMOCP)| Atecna Zizur Mayor, Navarra, Spain
Jan 05, 2022 8:30 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
...
Carlos -

There is no "best" - it really depends on the project's context, the industry you operate in, and what constraints exist.

I've never found a single platform which is able to handle the full end-to-end aspects of delivery. While there are comprehensive EPM solutions, they usually lack product lifecycle capabilities which are also needed by the team.

Some degree of integration is inevitable - for example, with your HR systems for understanding the organization structure and with your financial systems for reducing the manual effort involved with updating cost actuals.

Kiron
Hi Kiron.

I agree with you that a complete suite probably doesn't exist.
I have made some years ago a prospection of these kind of applications: CA Project & Portfolio Management, Sciforma, Talaia PPM, Kanbanize, Changepoint Daptiv...
And finally, on the one hand the cost of a suite was a little expensive or, on the other hand, the features wasn't enough.

In my opinion the applications that manages correctly the state of the execution of the work packages doesn't have features to plan complex projects.
And the applications that make easy a complex planification has a lack in team communication.

For this reason I ask for the opinion of other professionals like you.
avatar
Keith Novak Tukwila, Wa, United States
I have worked on developing enterprise level systems like you describe, but I don't have any particular favorites due to the tradeoffs.

Integrated systems may address the issue you describe about information integration, but with many groups in a value stream, different groups have different perspectives of "best" in their jobs. Tailoring the tool to your needs for efficiency either requires support from the software vendor, or your own IT dept. This can result in huge IT costs and a lack of flexibility for how your various teams mange data. It can also drive a huge data and process migration effort.

Eventually, businesses get frustrated with the integrated tool costs and lack of agility. They push for more home-grown right sized tools developed from the bottom up rather than pushed from the top down. Then you are back to the integration problem where translating data from one tool to another is problematic and expensive.

This pendulum of preference swings back and forth over the years. There tends to be a hybrid between integrated systems and one-off federated systems for specific needs.
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1 reply by Carlos Urtasun
Jan 10, 2022 2:59 AM
Carlos Urtasun
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Hi Keith.

I agree with you that each role has different needs. And I think that the "desire" of a unique application is originated at board committees instead of the technical areas.
These committees wants a unique point of view and probably an application to integrate the differente information of the projects should be an add-on of the ERP of the company. And that implies complexity.
Around the projects, in my experience, the managers has more concerns about the rentability than the uncertainty management. And the technicals teams needs to manage this uncertainty: scope, schedule, quality.
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Kiron Bondale Retired | Mentor| Retired Welland, Ontario, Canada
Carlos -

You may find that for your situation a best-of-breed point product for those knowledge areas where you need richer functionality coupled with a general information management toolset such as MS Office or a wiki would serve well.

Kiron
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1 reply by Carlos Urtasun
Jan 10, 2022 3:01 AM
Carlos Urtasun
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Yep. The question is to convince some stakeholders that, probably, the "Holy Grail" of a unique application is an utopia.
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Stéphane Parent Self Employed / Semi-retired| Leader Maker Prince Edward Island, Canada
This problem gets compounded when you have outsourced work. You may find it difficult to impose specific tools on a supplier, especially if the contract is for managed work.

Staff augmentation contracts are easier: you simply deal with each contractor as though they are an employee (i.e. licenses, training, access, . . . ).
...
1 reply by Carlos Urtasun
Jan 10, 2022 3:06 AM
Carlos Urtasun
...
Ok.
This is an another interesting point of view: the coordination of different suppliers.
In my experience some providers are agree to use some tools to monitoring the status of the plan execution, for example using a Kanban board. But, in reality, they doesn't move the cards...
avatar
Stéphane Parent Self Employed / Semi-retired| Leader Maker Prince Edward Island, Canada
This problem gets compounded when you have outsourced work. You may find it difficult to impose specific tools on a supplier, especially if the contract is for managed work.

Staff augmentation contracts are easier: you simply deal with each contractor as though they are an employee (i.e. licenses, training, access, . . . ).
avatar
Carlos Urtasun Project Manager (PMP - PMOCP)| Atecna Zizur Mayor, Navarra, Spain
Jan 05, 2022 4:48 PM
Replying to Keith Novak
...
I have worked on developing enterprise level systems like you describe, but I don't have any particular favorites due to the tradeoffs.

Integrated systems may address the issue you describe about information integration, but with many groups in a value stream, different groups have different perspectives of "best" in their jobs. Tailoring the tool to your needs for efficiency either requires support from the software vendor, or your own IT dept. This can result in huge IT costs and a lack of flexibility for how your various teams mange data. It can also drive a huge data and process migration effort.

Eventually, businesses get frustrated with the integrated tool costs and lack of agility. They push for more home-grown right sized tools developed from the bottom up rather than pushed from the top down. Then you are back to the integration problem where translating data from one tool to another is problematic and expensive.

This pendulum of preference swings back and forth over the years. There tends to be a hybrid between integrated systems and one-off federated systems for specific needs.
Hi Keith.

I agree with you that each role has different needs. And I think that the "desire" of a unique application is originated at board committees instead of the technical areas.
These committees wants a unique point of view and probably an application to integrate the differente information of the projects should be an add-on of the ERP of the company. And that implies complexity.
Around the projects, in my experience, the managers has more concerns about the rentability than the uncertainty management. And the technicals teams needs to manage this uncertainty: scope, schedule, quality.
avatar
Carlos Urtasun Project Manager (PMP - PMOCP)| Atecna Zizur Mayor, Navarra, Spain
Jan 05, 2022 4:49 PM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
...
Carlos -

You may find that for your situation a best-of-breed point product for those knowledge areas where you need richer functionality coupled with a general information management toolset such as MS Office or a wiki would serve well.

Kiron
Yep. The question is to convince some stakeholders that, probably, the "Holy Grail" of a unique application is an utopia.
avatar
Carlos Urtasun Project Manager (PMP - PMOCP)| Atecna Zizur Mayor, Navarra, Spain
Jan 07, 2022 1:09 PM
Replying to Stéphane Parent
...
This problem gets compounded when you have outsourced work. You may find it difficult to impose specific tools on a supplier, especially if the contract is for managed work.

Staff augmentation contracts are easier: you simply deal with each contractor as though they are an employee (i.e. licenses, training, access, . . . ).
Ok.
This is an another interesting point of view: the coordination of different suppliers.
In my experience some providers are agree to use some tools to monitoring the status of the plan execution, for example using a Kanban board. But, in reality, they doesn't move the cards...
avatar
Sergio Luis Conte Helping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based Organizations Buenos Aires, Argentina
Hola Carlos. Te contesto en Español porque estoy cansado de escribir en ingles. Soy de Argentina. Y veo que sos de Navarra, o al menos allí estas, región muy en nuestro corazón por muchas cosas. Lo mejor para vos y todo tu entorno en el año que comienza. Lo voy a poner en el marco de lo que ahora es una "palabra de moda" pero yo he tenido, por esas cosas del destino, la oportunidad de ser parte desde su "invención": Agile. Agile, tal como se definió en 1990, tiene que ver con arquitectura empresarial. Dentro de la arquitectura, existen tres "capas" principales: negocio, aplicativos (cualquier cosa que ayuda a ejecutar los procesos de negocio), tecnología (cualquier cosa que ayude a ejecutar los aplicativos). Todo esto en el marco de que las empresas son sistemas abiertos y adaptables. Por lo tanto, lo que vos describis, va directamente contra el concepto de utilizar Agile para lograr agilidad. Esto, lo he escrito, presentado en congresos incluso del PMI y etc. Solo te lo comento para que veas que no es puro palabrerio, estoy comprometido sobre todo porque me gusta investigar pero para comer lo tengo que poner en practica. Ahora bien, desde 1995 que me he visto en medio de poner esto en practica encuentro lo que vos describis incluso en mi actual lugar de trabajo. Lo que me ha dado resultado (e incluso he publicado y ha sido aceptado para mi sorpresa en varios ambitos) no es nada nuevo: integrar horizontalmente para no romper con el concepto de organizacion como sistema. Entonces, lo que yo he visto es que tenes dos estrategias: o transformas por revolucion o transformas por evolucion. La primera, que te voy a contar a vos los efectos, pero si la organizacion la acepta luego de visualizarlos y evaluarlos, adelante. Seria "tirar todo a la basura" y poner lo nuevo. Yo voy por la segunda. Y no hay una aplicacion que te integre todo (aunque podes encontrarlas, por ejemplo bajando al plano tecnico y utilizando microservicios). Lo que termina integrando es el proceso. Pero proceso, pertenece al plano de negocio asi que luego tenes que encontrar la aplicacion que soporte el proceso y luego la tecnologia que soporte la aplicacion, todo manteniendo alta cohesion y bajo acoplamiento. En mi trabajo actual, hemos hecho una buena experiencia utilizando la suite de Microsoft que ahora se llama PowerApps.
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1 reply by Carlos Urtasun
Jan 18, 2022 11:23 AM
Carlos Urtasun
...
Hola Sergio.
Encantado de responderte en español.
Me ha gustado tu clasificación: negocio, aplicativos, tecnología.
Nosotros, en www.beesy.es, solemos utilizar algo parecido: personas, procesos, herramientas.
Tengo experiencia, quizás no tanta como tú, en Agile. Y coincido en que la búsqueda de una única aplicación/plataforma sea poco ágil.
Es por eso que así he solicitado opiniones/experiencias en este foro.
Y las personas que dirigen las empresas suelen ser más "evolutivas" que "revolucionarias" por utilizar tu lenguaje.
Respecto a las PowerApps estoy de acuerdo de que ofrecen un panorama horizontal y ahí está el dilema: ¿creo un ecosistema integrado con esas PowerApps (Project, Planner, Office, Teams) o utilizo aplicaciones disjuntas y luego veo si integro de forma manual o automática (WBS Schedule Pro, Trello, Google Apps)?
Ya que te tengo en este hilo: ¿algún libro que recomendar en español o en inglés sobre este tema de los proyectos y/o Agile?
Un cordial saludo,
Carlos
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