Ken VaughnPartner| Industrial Fabrication Consultants LLPCharleston, Sc, United States
Hello to everyone. I've been lurking here for some time and I thought it was time to step from the shadows and introduce myself. Probably much of my being shy (I'm not a shy person normally but...) is the fact that I cannot call myself a PM Professional as I understand the term. As with other things having had the official title, formal training and certification means you can rightfully call yourself a "pro". And as with other fields of endeavor having the aforementioned credentials does NOT mean many other things which I won't mention, I'm sure you get my drift.
I do have formal training in Quality Management, SPC, Quality Auditing and I've had Quality Coordinator and Internal ISO Auditor titles which are all worth about as much by themselves as those mentioned in paragraph #1. All this verbal fidgeting is about the fact that I hope I can interact and ask questions, which I'm sure I'll be able to do, but whether or not anyone takes pity on the clueless noob will remain to be seen.
While I've never participated in PM formally I've been all around it in both corporate and production settings and from these perspectives I'm sure I've seen examples of how not to be successful with this process. And one big difference is that the PM I'm seeking to educate myself does not have to do with the IT Industry, it has to do with process creation and modification in what I'd call "heavy industry", building systems using fabrication services such as metal working, welding, shop services etc. What I've found since I started searching the net for information resources is that much of the PM discussion has to do with IT settings and the closest I've come to finding common ground and terms is the construction industry.
Of course there are many concepts that apply in any "project" setting.
Here comes the hard part. Having seen many projects in industry both good and bad (vague terms I know but bare with me) it seems that much of the theory I've read and studied is not practical in the "real world", especially when that world has blue collars rather than white.
It's not my goal to find and focus on the differences or find ways for these theories not to work, it is to find way to make PM viable and realistic in "my world", the dirty, dusty, hot, cold, greasy environments where things rust, overheat and wear out. And there is no denying that it is a much different world than the world of software development and IT in general.
Is there a place for me here? Is it worth my time? Blunt questions I know but again, I've had much experience seeing that the best practices and theories are worthless if they are impossible to implement. I'd really like to find a way to make it work though, because I'm sure it's the right way to make process improvements through project work.
I promised to ask a question so here it is, are the terms "Scope Creep", "Project Creep" and "Budget Creep" synonymous? I can see where one would cause the other such as Scope Creep causing budget creep but are there differences that would separate one from the other in any way?
Thanks for your time and patience. I hope you will indulge me with your input. And, I hope I get a better response than I did the time I joined an Audiophile forum and made the mistake of admitting I like Lynyrd Skynyrd.... :o)
Peter WrightProgramme Manager| BAE SystemsSouthport, Merseyside, United Kingdom
Ken,
I would say that a Project Manager or Project Management Office the responsibility is to utilise those theories and ideas from any walk of life and see which ones aid and de-risk the success of the "Project".
There can indeed be a difference between Budget and Scope creep, albeit in many instances there will be some links between the two. Some Examples:-
Building Scope Creep
Say you had a project to build a structure with 4x concrete pillars at the corners, but the customer wanted to move one of the corners inwards by a few metres. The quantity of materials and effort / resource to build this may not change the budget (assuming the re-design/planning costs are zero). but it has changed the scope and this needs to be assessed by the Subject Matter Experts to ensure there are no additional risks/compliance issues that may arise from the change.
Building Costs
The costs of materials can fluctuate from original contract/bill of materials assessment to procurement/purchase. If in-sufficient contingency has been scoped into the project then your Budget has creep which needs to be mitigated.
Processes can also creep in scope, they can become larger, include more teams, but not necessarily the costs to the business to implement.
Peter
Saving Changes...
Ken VaughnPartner| Industrial Fabrication Consultants LLPCharleston, Sc, United States
Peter,
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I assume that the "creep" may not always mean movement toward an enlarged scope bringing the additional costs associated with more material, manpower etc. The movement could actually be toward a smaller scope which I have seen. This could still incur additional costs in redesign etc. While I had initially seen creep as being synonymous with "change", I'm now thinking it is more associated with uncontrolled change as with larger projects scope change is almost inevitable The question is how it is managed.
Thanks again,
Ken
Thanks again,
Ken Saving Changes...
Kevin HartfordProject Manager| Olgoonik Specialty ContractorsArlington, Va, United States
I like Lynard Skynard too! I look at Project Management as a process rather than the end all be all. At the end of the process there is a product, so it is the product that matter rather than the process.
What the PMBOK provides is a framework just as ISO provides a framework, but does not necessarily provide the quality management system.
When I think about scope creep and change orders are not necessarily the same. But they could both effect the budget. I have worked on many projects where scope creep was not kept in check and cost did balloon. When a project is descoped, it usually means that the project has gone over budget and the customer does not get what they originally contracted for.
On the other hand, change orders could or could not effect the budget, but it is usually the customer that asks for it and understands the budget.
It is a hard question because we all want to give the customers what they want, unfortunately sometimes the customer does not know what they want and that is where scope creep comes in to play and for the project team that is where work gets done twice or never meets the customer's needs. Saving Changes...
Ken VaughnPartner| Industrial Fabrication Consultants LLPCharleston, Sc, United States
Thanks for your reply Kevin. I said earlier I was fidgeting verbally, I guess I stuttered verbally in my last post. I've been learning a lot lately about PM and I was somewhat surprised to see that something I knew occurred in the real world actually has a name and that is the "Accidental Project Manager". And this is the case more often than you'd believe. Someone with no formal training, no real methodology is tasked with seeing that a real project gets done on time, within budget.
Seems like a recipe for disaster right? I've seen things you would not believe, to strange not to be fiction.
But, I'm convinced there are ways to take the core concepts of PM and implement them in such situations. But I suspect it's more a matter of framing them in terms that can be understood and presenting the ideas in ways that make sense and seem worthwhile. An alternative to "Accidental Project Management".
Scope creep (is to be avoided) may introduce risk to the project and impact the the triple contract (scope, schedule, resources). Negotiation with your sponsor on the triple contraint to deal with scope creep and guard your project charter with your life. Seriously, as the PM you'll spend time throughout the life of the project fending off scope creep.
Honestly, all projects take on a life of their own but they must end at some point.
We're a fun group here; join us anytime. Saving Changes...
Ken VaughnPartner| Industrial Fabrication Consultants LLPCharleston, Sc, United States
Naomi,
Thanks for your post. Input from the "pros" like yourself and everyone else who has responded in this thread is most valued and appreciated.
I'm learning so much these days specifically about the "accidental" project management phenomenon. This is something I will have to deal with often and I feel the more I understand it the better able I'll be to provide an effective alternative. And I've come to the conclusion that when the management of a project is accidental, everything to do with the project becomes the same which equals inefficiency + counter-productivity + unrealized goals and many unhappy campers in the front office.
Thanks again, I bet these are interesting days in Sacramento... ;o) Saving Changes...
Ken, Welcome and thanks for stepping into the "light” As projects and industries go, there is and can be an overwhelming amount of “best practices” one can apply to any. The first step is to work it down to:
1. Known issues/problems etc- what you are familiar with and have strong understanding
2. Everything else- What is not easy to solve and having it fit neatly into a solution.
Of course, they are interrelated etc, but for basic purposes, it is better to start with the familiar. As you review and choose approaches and complete projects. The review of the project and the findings can be a “project “ of their own that will aid in you selecting tool sets, communication approaches and the feedback you get from others in your organization etc.
This is a great forum to gain insight and guidance from many individuals with a broad range of experience. I am sure most of us have all been accidental PMs at some point in our careers. The long-term survival of this is hopefully you enjoy the work and love learning. There is so much out there that what makes it fun!!
Saving Changes...
Yes, we've all been accidental project managers and rockers :) (still are) at one point.
The fun (challenge) of it all is that your organization has tapped you on the shoulder to lead.
So, join us; we've all been in the trenches somewhere in some situtation. Stumbling is okay; getting up and crossing the finish line is the key to achieving your goals. So, keep on leading and learning...
Welcome aboard!
On your point of accidental project managers, I think you will find that is how most of us started! How many young students at career counselling are told about project management as a career?
As fo the various "creeps" in projects! I liken these to those small dust piles that get swept under the carpet until the carpet hits the ceiling! They are largely unmanaged changes "squeezed" into the project because they can be (or think they can be!). In the end the project is late and over budget and has no resembalnce to what was initially envisaged as the product and no one quite knows why.
A properly managed project normally doesn't experience "creep". However, it will have change (almost inevitably) but it is how the change is managed that is the difference and at the end of the project everyone knows why it took as long as it did and why it cost what it cost. The value that is realised is measurable against the ROI on the changes!
As Peter mentioned budgets can change as costs increase from those initially budgeted for, but in more mature organisations the risk management process will cost the risks and have a risk budget to cover these cost increases. (oh for an ideal world!)
Regards Julie Saving Changes...
Ken VaughnPartner| Industrial Fabrication Consultants LLPCharleston, Sc, United States
Julie,
Thanks for the input. Things are really starting to pick up for us and with regard to PM I'm learning something new every day. It won't be long before the theory goes into practice and I'm hoping by placing emphasis on adhering to PM best practices we will be able to differentiate ourselves in "our world". I hope to move from accidental to deliberate at a steady pace and gain credentials/certifications eventually.
