Experienced PM Obtaining PMP with HS Education... Disaster?
Anonymous
Hi all,
I have 6 years of project management experience in JIT/custom manufacturing industry. The pay cap is not good - and in a very high COL area. I am pursuing my PMP now that I am eligible, but I only have a HS diploma. I see many job postings are looking for educated, highly experienced individuals with PMP to complement them. I need some sort of formal education, but I realize PMP will only even be recognized at face value by hiring managers who are looking for PM's specifically.
Has anyone else pursued PM career with no college education with success?
I am only employed as PM because it's a niche industry that I have a lot of experience with (permit acquisition, design, estimating, sales, etc), this is a job I could obtain anywhere in the USA, but again the pay cap is below average. Average salary here is $75K (which is my goal), pay cap in this position is $45-52K unfortunately.
Any personal experience is welcome. My cost of living is too high to go back to school now unfortunately, I work 7 days a week between my business and career. I can find time to study for the PMP, no issue. But going for a full BA degree would be too much. Saving Changes...
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Jan 23, 2023 9:51 AM
Replying to Jessica Reid
...
What I don't understand is why PMI equates a College Diploma with a High School education. Some of those programs are arguably more advanced than some university degrees. I know a lot of people who feel they cannot apply for the PMP because "they don't have a university degree," yet they have a college diploma and are a certified Technologist. Also, some people seem to think only "technical" people can obtain the PMP, and if you have any degree that doesn't fall within Engineering/Science/etc., you can't possibly get a PMP. It's a bit of an issue I have. There are plenty of people who are far more capable of certain things than I am, and vice versa. People need to stop pigeonholing/stereotyping.
Jessica, While I somehow hear your point of view, I am not sure I agree with you quite honestly:
1) College diploma programs are not more advanced than university degrees. They might focus more on certain subjects but in the overall scheme of things, I don't think they are more advanced than 4 year university degrees.
2) Who said that people without university degree can't apply for the PMP? If someone has a college diploma, they can certainly apply if they have 60 months of experience leading projects in the past 8 years.
3) Having an engineering or scientific degree is not the one factor and no, not only technical people can apply because half of what we do as PMs if not more, is more soft skills related than technical related and those soft skills you gain from experience, not a university degree.
Of course, I am not trying to undermine what you've said, but only respectfully stating my opinion!
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1 reply by Jessica Reid
Jan 24, 2023 10:02 AM
Jessica Reid
...
No worries Rami!
I feel that someone who puts the time and effort into a college diploma definitely has more advancement than someone who just has a high school diploma. While I have a Graduate degree, I would argue that some of those who put the effort into a "simple diploma" still put a lot of time and effort into it, and some of those programs are beyond my personal capabilities. To me, that's why I see something as more advanced. I think it also depends on where you live. In my province, the universities offer the same 2-year diplomas in the technical fields as the community college does. It's still not a 4-year degree, but again, it is more advanced training than just a high school diploma, and those courses are not exactly easy. Some of those college programs are still university level courses, and require additional certifications/exams to progress in a field. Also, not everyone has the means to attend a full-fledged university, and college may be their only option for financial reasons.
I just find in my experience, people seem to look down on these diplomas, and have misperceptions about who and what is applicable to apply for the PMP. I have had people tell me they feel they are ineligible because they don't have a university degree, or have been told that their field of study prohibits them from gaining the certification. It's not right, and I feel that some people perpetuate this elite-ness of holding a PMP.
While in university, I experienced a lot of this "snobbery" about how people perceived their university degree was more valuable than a diploma, yet some of those diplomas are more likely to provide gainful employment over someone with a degree, depending on the field.
I guess I just feel that PMI should perhaps lower the PM experience requirement for those with college diplomas. They don't shorten it for anyone who has a Masters or PhD, if they are going by education = experience criteria. I do not equate holding a college diploma to holding a high school diploma.
Apologies for rambling.
Saving Changes...
Jessica ReidConfiguration Management Specialist| Thales Canada Defense and SecurityDartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
Jan 23, 2023 12:15 PM
Replying to Rami Kaibni
...
Jessica, While I somehow hear your point of view, I am not sure I agree with you quite honestly:
1) College diploma programs are not more advanced than university degrees. They might focus more on certain subjects but in the overall scheme of things, I don't think they are more advanced than 4 year university degrees.
2) Who said that people without university degree can't apply for the PMP? If someone has a college diploma, they can certainly apply if they have 60 months of experience leading projects in the past 8 years.
3) Having an engineering or scientific degree is not the one factor and no, not only technical people can apply because half of what we do as PMs if not more, is more soft skills related than technical related and those soft skills you gain from experience, not a university degree.
Of course, I am not trying to undermine what you've said, but only respectfully stating my opinion!
No worries Rami!
I feel that someone who puts the time and effort into a college diploma definitely has more advancement than someone who just has a high school diploma. While I have a Graduate degree, I would argue that some of those who put the effort into a "simple diploma" still put a lot of time and effort into it, and some of those programs are beyond my personal capabilities. To me, that's why I see something as more advanced. I think it also depends on where you live. In my province, the universities offer the same 2-year diplomas in the technical fields as the community college does. It's still not a 4-year degree, but again, it is more advanced training than just a high school diploma, and those courses are not exactly easy. Some of those college programs are still university level courses, and require additional certifications/exams to progress in a field. Also, not everyone has the means to attend a full-fledged university, and college may be their only option for financial reasons.
I just find in my experience, people seem to look down on these diplomas, and have misperceptions about who and what is applicable to apply for the PMP. I have had people tell me they feel they are ineligible because they don't have a university degree, or have been told that their field of study prohibits them from gaining the certification. It's not right, and I feel that some people perpetuate this elite-ness of holding a PMP.
While in university, I experienced a lot of this "snobbery" about how people perceived their university degree was more valuable than a diploma, yet some of those diplomas are more likely to provide gainful employment over someone with a degree, depending on the field.
I guess I just feel that PMI should perhaps lower the PM experience requirement for those with college diplomas. They don't shorten it for anyone who has a Masters or PhD, if they are going by education = experience criteria. I do not equate holding a college diploma to holding a high school diploma.
Apologies for rambling.
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Jan 24, 2023 11:28 AM
Rami Kaibni
...
Jessica, you have a point in some of what you've mentioned and I am not against reducing the experience requirement for people with Diplomas. I don't know what is PMIs rationale behind setting 60 months of experience for people with Diplomas versus 36 months for those with university degree but I do trust they have a solid rationale which at some point I would be interested to know.
Both a university degree and/or diploma are not helpful at all if you don't have solid experience. Those degrees and certificates provide foundational background and knowledge but the real deal is in practicing what you've learned.
As for your statement: "I have had people tell me they feel they are ineligible because they don't have a university degree, or have been told that their field of study prohibits them from gaining the certification." - This just means that they didn't do their due dilligence and reasearch properly because if you just read the requirements on PMIs website, you will immediately know what they feel is not consistent with what is clearly mentioned by PMI. A university degree helps reduce the experience requirements, thats all but it is not a deal breaker for the application.
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Jan 24, 2023 10:02 AM
Replying to Jessica Reid
...
No worries Rami!
I feel that someone who puts the time and effort into a college diploma definitely has more advancement than someone who just has a high school diploma. While I have a Graduate degree, I would argue that some of those who put the effort into a "simple diploma" still put a lot of time and effort into it, and some of those programs are beyond my personal capabilities. To me, that's why I see something as more advanced. I think it also depends on where you live. In my province, the universities offer the same 2-year diplomas in the technical fields as the community college does. It's still not a 4-year degree, but again, it is more advanced training than just a high school diploma, and those courses are not exactly easy. Some of those college programs are still university level courses, and require additional certifications/exams to progress in a field. Also, not everyone has the means to attend a full-fledged university, and college may be their only option for financial reasons.
I just find in my experience, people seem to look down on these diplomas, and have misperceptions about who and what is applicable to apply for the PMP. I have had people tell me they feel they are ineligible because they don't have a university degree, or have been told that their field of study prohibits them from gaining the certification. It's not right, and I feel that some people perpetuate this elite-ness of holding a PMP.
While in university, I experienced a lot of this "snobbery" about how people perceived their university degree was more valuable than a diploma, yet some of those diplomas are more likely to provide gainful employment over someone with a degree, depending on the field.
I guess I just feel that PMI should perhaps lower the PM experience requirement for those with college diplomas. They don't shorten it for anyone who has a Masters or PhD, if they are going by education = experience criteria. I do not equate holding a college diploma to holding a high school diploma.
Apologies for rambling.
Jessica, you have a point in some of what you've mentioned and I am not against reducing the experience requirement for people with Diplomas. I don't know what is PMIs rationale behind setting 60 months of experience for people with Diplomas versus 36 months for those with university degree but I do trust they have a solid rationale which at some point I would be interested to know.
Both a university degree and/or diploma are not helpful at all if you don't have solid experience. Those degrees and certificates provide foundational background and knowledge but the real deal is in practicing what you've learned.
As for your statement: "I have had people tell me they feel they are ineligible because they don't have a university degree, or have been told that their field of study prohibits them from gaining the certification." - This just means that they didn't do their due dilligence and reasearch properly because if you just read the requirements on PMIs website, you will immediately know what they feel is not consistent with what is clearly mentioned by PMI. A university degree helps reduce the experience requirements, thats all but it is not a deal breaker for the application. Saving Changes...
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