I can finally admit that I am frustrated with find a PM role. I got my certification almost 2 years ago and have yet to land one. I will be transparent in saying that I have accepted 2 program manager roles because it seemed easier to pivot given my background. While I have seen a huge jump on salary, I still want a PM role. I had a few small level projects in my current role. Maybe I am not leveraging my experience correctly. I don't know but all advice is welcome. I have been told to look into project coordinator roles, but I honestly cannot take that decrease in salary. Saving Changes...
Hi Danielle,
I both appreciate and sympathize with your situation.
My first advice would be to write down very specifically what you think is the role of the PM job you want as your ideal job description The words mean different things to different employers. Some think a PM is mostly admin. My prior boss gave us the title Program Integration Manger (PIM) for that reason, because he thought it sounded more important and people wouldn't think we were there to run meetings for others. In some workplaces the PM title holds a lot more weight than others.
A program manager in my world is several levels up the org structure from my lowly PIM role. If you were my Senior VP and wanted to trade jobs with me, you wouldn't have to ask twice. :-) Point being, different terms in different places are perceived differently so the first part of getting the job you want is being very clear in your own mind what that is, and how to articulate it to others. That includes your resume, and your interviewing process.
Also for a frame of reference, 2 years of frustration isn't that really unusual. I've been stuck a couple times where I had a really good job but something changed (usually management). It takes time for the realization to set in that things aren't working to plan, trying to fix it, realizing it's not something you can fix, deciding what to do next, and then making a move.
Keith
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1 reply by Danielle Bolden
Jun 05, 2024 8:50 PM
Danielle Bolden
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Thank you for the advice and interaction. You are correct, PM means different things for different organizations. I have noticed that in my job search. For the roles where it is clear that the PM will act in an administrative capacity, I do not apply. Of course, there are some things that won't be clear about your role until you are active in the role. I think that my current role is that case. I am not all saying that a program manager is a bad title. That title also means different things for different organizations. Project Management is a very diverse field with many different layers which is what attracted me to the certification and the field. I love driving change and putting together projects that will drive that change. I know that my situation as unique as many people reach a level of frustration in their career. I have simply hit that point and I realize that is okay. I will not give up.
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Daneille, my thoughts are in line with Keith's. I am also not clear as to why you would want to look for a PM role while you have a PgM role (it's somehow a demotion). In the PgM role, you can fully practice all your PM skills but on a higher more complex level which I do find to be super beneficial for your future career in terms of post and learning!
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1 reply by Danielle Bolden
Jun 05, 2024 8:57 PM
Danielle Bolden
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Hello Rami, that is an interesting perspective. I never thought about it in the terms of a demotion or promotion. I am not married to the title, but I have thoughts about how I want to use my certification that I worked very hard for. I just hit a point where I am a little frustrated with the job market at the moment. As I said, the PM role means different things to different organizations and the same for Program Manager. In some orgs, PMs are a higher level that PGMs, it all just depends.
Hi Danielle,
I both appreciate and sympathize with your situation.
My first advice would be to write down very specifically what you think is the role of the PM job you want as your ideal job description The words mean different things to different employers. Some think a PM is mostly admin. My prior boss gave us the title Program Integration Manger (PIM) for that reason, because he thought it sounded more important and people wouldn't think we were there to run meetings for others. In some workplaces the PM title holds a lot more weight than others.
A program manager in my world is several levels up the org structure from my lowly PIM role. If you were my Senior VP and wanted to trade jobs with me, you wouldn't have to ask twice. :-) Point being, different terms in different places are perceived differently so the first part of getting the job you want is being very clear in your own mind what that is, and how to articulate it to others. That includes your resume, and your interviewing process.
Also for a frame of reference, 2 years of frustration isn't that really unusual. I've been stuck a couple times where I had a really good job but something changed (usually management). It takes time for the realization to set in that things aren't working to plan, trying to fix it, realizing it's not something you can fix, deciding what to do next, and then making a move.
Keith
Thank you for the advice and interaction. You are correct, PM means different things for different organizations. I have noticed that in my job search. For the roles where it is clear that the PM will act in an administrative capacity, I do not apply. Of course, there are some things that won't be clear about your role until you are active in the role. I think that my current role is that case. I am not all saying that a program manager is a bad title. That title also means different things for different organizations. Project Management is a very diverse field with many different layers which is what attracted me to the certification and the field. I love driving change and putting together projects that will drive that change. I know that my situation as unique as many people reach a level of frustration in their career. I have simply hit that point and I realize that is okay. I will not give up. Saving Changes...
Daneille, my thoughts are in line with Keith's. I am also not clear as to why you would want to look for a PM role while you have a PgM role (it's somehow a demotion). In the PgM role, you can fully practice all your PM skills but on a higher more complex level which I do find to be super beneficial for your future career in terms of post and learning!
Hello Rami, that is an interesting perspective. I never thought about it in the terms of a demotion or promotion. I am not married to the title, but I have thoughts about how I want to use my certification that I worked very hard for. I just hit a point where I am a little frustrated with the job market at the moment. As I said, the PM role means different things to different organizations and the same for Program Manager. In some orgs, PMs are a higher level that PGMs, it all just depends. Saving Changes...
Travis LutherManager of Analytics, Operations, and Reporting| University of Missouri SystemColumbia, United States
Danielle,
Here are several questions, you may view them as rhetorical, but I think walking through them yourself might be useful.
Have you been able to write out what you want from the project manager role?
Could you also write out what you do in your program manager role?
What about your current position doesn't also satisfy the project management role you are looking for?
I think some of the difference in your expectations vs. the previous responses is that in PMI terms, a program manager is the manager in charge of several projects or project managers depending on the size of the organization. Is this not your experience? If you find you are managing an operational department with daily work, could you organize your own projects? For example, you could direct projects for process improvement or documentation of processes and procedures for the purposes of business continuity planning.
A warning, given your understanding that project management is a "very diverse field with many different layers" and this was your initial interest in the field, you likely won't be able to do everything that a project manager could be doing.
Simply based reading the title of Program Manager, in PMI terms, "driving change and putting together projects that will drive that change," can absolutely be organized from the program level. Rather than directing a single project at the ground level a program manager should be directing several project managers. Is this not your experience?
Our of curiosity, how many organizations have you come across that a PM has seniority over a PgM? Could you describe them? Unless the title/organization is not using PMI terminology, this does not appear to be normal.
Danielle Bolden Thank you for sharing your journey so honestly. Transitioning to a PM role can definitely be challenging, especially when balancing career goals and salary expectations. It sounds like you've made great strides with program manager roles and small projects—those experiences could be strong assets if positioned effectively.
Have things improved since you posted this? Would love to hear how things are going now.
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1 reply by Danielle Bolden
Jan 27, 2025 10:34 PM
Danielle Bolden
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Hello,
Thank you for your response to my post. I have not landed a project management role yet but my frustration has decreased since this post. I worked very hard for the accomplishment of passing the PMP. I have been started to look at my current role in a different capacity and that has helped me some. I keep getting the comment to check my local chapter. Honestly, I have not been impressed with my chapter and thinking of withdrawing my membership.
Thank you for sharing your frustration—it’s completely valid, and the project management journey can vary for everyone.
I recommend checking with your local PMI chapter; they may have a mentoring program or resources to connect you with someone who can guide and support you. A mentor could help you strategically leverage your experience and navigate opportunities without compromising your progress.
Wishing you the best on your PM journey! Saving Changes...
Danielle Bolden Thank you for sharing your journey so honestly. Transitioning to a PM role can definitely be challenging, especially when balancing career goals and salary expectations. It sounds like you've made great strides with program manager roles and small projects—those experiences could be strong assets if positioned effectively.
Have things improved since you posted this? Would love to hear how things are going now.
Hello,
Thank you for your response to my post. I have not landed a project management role yet but my frustration has decreased since this post. I worked very hard for the accomplishment of passing the PMP. I have been started to look at my current role in a different capacity and that has helped me some. I keep getting the comment to check my local chapter. Honestly, I have not been impressed with my chapter and thinking of withdrawing my membership.
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2 replies by Mayte Mata Sivera and Rami Kaibni
Jan 27, 2025 11:06 PM
Rami Kaibni
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Danielle, glad to hear your frustration decrease. Regarding chapter membership, starting Feb, PMI and Chapter membership will be combined in one.
Jan 27, 2025 11:14 PM
Mayte Mata Sivera
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I would like to ask you, why aren’t you impressed? Just curious…maybe sharing my own personal experience can help.
About 12-15 years ago…I was not impressed either when I first joined PMI about my local chapter. In my case, it was because I lacked knowledge…I didn’t know that the people involved in the chapter were volunteers.
Fast forward to now, I am a board member of the PMI Northern Utah Chapter, and I’ve seen firsthand how much heart and effort goes into these chapters. I highly encourage you to reach out to them, attend an event, or give it another try. Please keep in mind that these volunteers are often juggling high-demand professional roles, family responsibilities, and their passion for giving back to the PMI community. Just give another try or send me a private message to continue the conversation.
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Jan 27, 2025 10:34 PM
Replying to Danielle Bolden
...
Hello,
Thank you for your response to my post. I have not landed a project management role yet but my frustration has decreased since this post. I worked very hard for the accomplishment of passing the PMP. I have been started to look at my current role in a different capacity and that has helped me some. I keep getting the comment to check my local chapter. Honestly, I have not been impressed with my chapter and thinking of withdrawing my membership.
Danielle, glad to hear your frustration decrease. Regarding chapter membership, starting Feb, PMI and Chapter membership will be combined in one. Saving Changes...
Hello,
Thank you for your response to my post. I have not landed a project management role yet but my frustration has decreased since this post. I worked very hard for the accomplishment of passing the PMP. I have been started to look at my current role in a different capacity and that has helped me some. I keep getting the comment to check my local chapter. Honestly, I have not been impressed with my chapter and thinking of withdrawing my membership.
I would like to ask you, why aren’t you impressed? Just curious…maybe sharing my own personal experience can help.
About 12-15 years ago…I was not impressed either when I first joined PMI about my local chapter. In my case, it was because I lacked knowledge…I didn’t know that the people involved in the chapter were volunteers.
Fast forward to now, I am a board member of the PMI Northern Utah Chapter, and I’ve seen firsthand how much heart and effort goes into these chapters. I highly encourage you to reach out to them, attend an event, or give it another try. Please keep in mind that these volunteers are often juggling high-demand professional roles, family responsibilities, and their passion for giving back to the PMI community. Just give another try or send me a private message to continue the conversation.
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