PMP is not relevant in my current organization, but would be if we were going to have more than one PM. In past organizations it was required for most PM positions, unless we promoted someone internally for a junior position.
Ultimately, the PMP is a piece of paper that indicates someone has some experience and enough understanding of the PMBOK Guide to pass the exam. I think most of us would agree that your abilities and quality as a project manager don't change just because you passed the exam. Things that make a great project manager are experience, business acumen, hard and soft skills, to name a few.
The one non-PMP, experienced project manager I've worked with had a success rate comparable to the PMPs at the company who had comparable experience. I've worked with PMPs who were less successful, but it wasn't because of knowledge of the PMBOK Guide, or lack thereof.
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1 reply by Mike Frenette
Dec 19, 2024 5:10 PM
Mike Frenette
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So, in your view, Aaron, a PMP is meaningless and you wouldn't bother mentioning it in a job ad?
"Things that make a great project manager are experience, business acumen, hard and soft skills, to name a few."
I agree with this statement, and would add to it "a solid track record of success."
I've met many seasoned, qualified PMs who have no interest in attaining any certification and are extremely competent.
Unfortunately, I have also met a number of certified PMs who shouldn't be allowed near any project bigger than a bread box.
Until PMI focuses on quality over quantity when it comes to certification numbers, this will continue...
Kiron
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2 replies by Mike Frenette and Shannon Lewis
Dec 19, 2024 5:10 PM
Mike Frenette
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So, in your view, Kiron, a PMP is meaningless and you wouldn't bother mentioning it in a job ad?
Dec 19, 2024 7:52 PM
Shannon Lewis
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Kiron,
I couldn't agree more.
Saving Changes...
Mike FrenetteManager, IT PMO| Halifax Water (retired)Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Dec 19, 2024 3:48 PM
Replying to Aaron Porter
...
PMP is not relevant in my current organization, but would be if we were going to have more than one PM. In past organizations it was required for most PM positions, unless we promoted someone internally for a junior position.
Ultimately, the PMP is a piece of paper that indicates someone has some experience and enough understanding of the PMBOK Guide to pass the exam. I think most of us would agree that your abilities and quality as a project manager don't change just because you passed the exam. Things that make a great project manager are experience, business acumen, hard and soft skills, to name a few.
The one non-PMP, experienced project manager I've worked with had a success rate comparable to the PMPs at the company who had comparable experience. I've worked with PMPs who were less successful, but it wasn't because of knowledge of the PMBOK Guide, or lack thereof.
So, in your view, Aaron, a PMP is meaningless and you wouldn't bother mentioning it in a job ad?
"Things that make a great project manager are experience, business acumen, hard and soft skills, to name a few."
I agree with this statement, and would add to it "a solid track record of success."
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1 reply by Aaron Porter
Dec 19, 2024 5:54 PM
Aaron Porter
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IMO, A great project manager is more likely to be someone who has experienced success AND learned from failures. If I were interviewing a candidate who had only experienced success, I would wonder if that candidate had only worked on easy projects or wasn't being completely honest (of course, I would also have doubts about someone who had experienced a lot of failures and blamed them ALL on other people - we can't control everything, but ownership can be a good attribute if not overdone). You can't grow as a project manager without learning new things or being given new opportunities, and when you do things you haven't done before there is always a risk failure. How you respond to failure is more important than whether you failed, generally speaking.
To respond to your question, in my initial post I stated, "PMP is not relevant in my current organization, but would be if we were going to have more than one PM." I view the PMP as a measuring stick or snapshot of the following.
- Has the candidate met a minimum level of experience? - Has the candidate had some project management training/education? - Is the candidate aware of the market/competition and working to stay relevant/current?
Another reason I would include it in a job ad is that, compared to other certifications, like CSM, the exam is challenging and passing does say something about the person, in comparison. To be honest, I would be looking for someone who understands more than just the PMBOK Guide - I think a great project manager is able to identify the best approach for a project and knows how to run that kind of project, whether it be iterative, incremental, linear, adaptive, etc., or a combination of approaches, but I don't think obtaining certification in every possible approach to project management is necessary.
If there was a better measuring stick I would use that instead, but like with the PMP it wouldn't be the only gauge I consider.
Saving Changes...
Mike FrenetteManager, IT PMO| Halifax Water (retired)Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Dec 19, 2024 4:56 PM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
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Mike -
I've met many seasoned, qualified PMs who have no interest in attaining any certification and are extremely competent.
Unfortunately, I have also met a number of certified PMs who shouldn't be allowed near any project bigger than a bread box.
Until PMI focuses on quality over quantity when it comes to certification numbers, this will continue...
Kiron
So, in your view, Kiron, a PMP is meaningless and you wouldn't bother mentioning it in a job ad?
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1 reply by Kiron Bondale
Dec 20, 2024 7:03 AM
Kiron Bondale
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Mike -
Meaningless, no, but any knowledge-based certification complements a proven track record of delivery and does not replace it.
If I had two identical candidates, one with and one without a PMP, I'd hire the one with the PMP for sure. However, I'd hire a candidate with "scars on their back" from diverse & deep PM experience who is uncertified to one who has minimal experience (barely sufficient to meet the PMP requirements) and has their certification.
Back in 2000 when I got it, it was a differentiator. Now, much less so.
So, in your view, Aaron, a PMP is meaningless and you wouldn't bother mentioning it in a job ad?
"Things that make a great project manager are experience, business acumen, hard and soft skills, to name a few."
I agree with this statement, and would add to it "a solid track record of success."
IMO, A great project manager is more likely to be someone who has experienced success AND learned from failures. If I were interviewing a candidate who had only experienced success, I would wonder if that candidate had only worked on easy projects or wasn't being completely honest (of course, I would also have doubts about someone who had experienced a lot of failures and blamed them ALL on other people - we can't control everything, but ownership can be a good attribute if not overdone). You can't grow as a project manager without learning new things or being given new opportunities, and when you do things you haven't done before there is always a risk failure. How you respond to failure is more important than whether you failed, generally speaking.
To respond to your question, in my initial post I stated, "PMP is not relevant in my current organization, but would be if we were going to have more than one PM." I view the PMP as a measuring stick or snapshot of the following.
- Has the candidate met a minimum level of experience? - Has the candidate had some project management training/education? - Is the candidate aware of the market/competition and working to stay relevant/current?
Another reason I would include it in a job ad is that, compared to other certifications, like CSM, the exam is challenging and passing does say something about the person, in comparison. To be honest, I would be looking for someone who understands more than just the PMBOK Guide - I think a great project manager is able to identify the best approach for a project and knows how to run that kind of project, whether it be iterative, incremental, linear, adaptive, etc., or a combination of approaches, but I don't think obtaining certification in every possible approach to project management is necessary.
If there was a better measuring stick I would use that instead, but like with the PMP it wouldn't be the only gauge I consider. Saving Changes...
Mike,
I believe there is an industry misconception of what a PMP is and what it represents. This is not a Project Manager certification, it is a project management certification. Someone who has obtained their PMP should have a solid foundational knowledge in project management, but may not have any experience actually managing projects in a Project Manager role. This is why as Kiron mentioned, having a PMP does not mean you should lead projects.
The organizations that I have witnessed that have true project success have had organizational maturity in project management, and a business structure that supported the PMs such as a strong matrix. Bad organizations can ruin great project managers. Saving Changes...
Khai Ng.IT PMO | IT Project Manager| TTGROUPHanoi, Viet Nam
Mike
Does a PMP always make a great project manager?
--> I think PMP helps to make a professional project manager but not always make a great project manager.
Conversely, might an experienced non-PMP project manager make a great project manager too?
--> Yes, the same as a great CEO without MBA
How do you view and use the PMP credential in your organization? Of all your PMs, how many are PMPs and how many are not?
--> I view PMP holders are those that can talk the same language when we talk about starting a new project. Because of language barrier, many good PMs around me did not pass PMP exam.
Is your experience that success rates are higher on projects run by PMPs?
--> Definitely yes, Saving Changes...
PMO Leader | Speaker & Mentor | Content Leader – PMOGA Latin America
Hub| Catholic University of UruguayMontevideo, Montevideo, Uruguay
Is it always essential? It depends on the industry: In sectors such as IT, construction and consulting, PMP certification is often an essential requirement. In others, such as startups or creative projects, experience and interpersonal skills may carry more weight. Value depending on the organization: Some companies prioritize certification to ensure standards, while others value practical experience or specific skills more. Focus on agile methodologies: If the organization uses agile approaches such as Scrum, PMP certification may not be essential, but it is still useful to combine it with traditional (hybrid) practices.
Having PMP certification is a significant investment that can open doors and enhance a project manager's career. However, it is not a substitute for critical skills such as leadership, effective communication and adaptability, which are essential for success in any environment. Saving Changes...
My job is aligned to Engineering where the term PMP is not widely recognized. Project Engineer seems to be the most widely recognized term in my industry but the role itself goes by many titles within engineering organizations.
Most actual PM positions are either senior level engineers, or earlier career and given an opportunity to develop leadership experience. The Project Management title in an engineering org. is frequently viewed as business admin trying to manage things they don't understand. My current title is Program Integration Manager, which is highly regarded here but I've never heard of it elsewhere.
I do know that when hired for a senior level PM position that the PMP was on the HR screening filter and put me on a very short list. The PMP may not prove what I can do, but I have been able to prove what I can do in part because I passed the exam. Saving Changes...
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