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what kind of relationship between ethic and risk management?

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fosco frongia Senior project manager| ENTE PATRIMONIALE CHIESA GESU' CRISTO SUG Fino Mornasco, Como, Italy
in other discussion was pointed out the relationship between bad ethics and poor risk management. In other therms it was considered that bad ethics could depend from a short time vision (not from an intentional bad behavior) which depends from a poor risk management.
what do you think about it?
do you think that a correct and complete knowledge of ethic code could influence this relationship?
thanks in advance for your comments
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Kiran Kumar Transformation Management Office Viernheim, Germany
Simply stating risk entails a threat posed by the failure in decision making and managing of risk is how well we manage the resources (not just human) and management of stakeholders. The second aspect is something I believe has a closer relationship with ethics :). Francis describes 7 ethical principles and all of them have in one form or the other impact the risks, which are more at a Business or Corporate level. CSR (corporate social responsibility) is also relevant in this regard.
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1 reply by Steven Zachary
Dec 30, 2015 2:20 AM
Steven Zachary
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Kiran,

Francis? Care to share a link?
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fosco frongia Senior project manager| ENTE PATRIMONIALE CHIESA GESU' CRISTO SUG Fino Mornasco, Como, Italy
thanks Kiram,
may you give me more references about Francis description?
many thanks in advance
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Rami Kaibni
Community Champion
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten Associates New Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Good risk management requires good ethics; and good ethics require good risk management. Please read the following article:

https://www.irmi.com/articles/expert-comme...ment-and-ethics

Hope this helps.
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2 replies by Steven Zachary and fosco frongia
Dec 30, 2015 2:21 AM
Steven Zachary
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Great resource Rami, thank you!
Dec 30, 2015 4:37 PM
fosco frongia
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many thanks Rami,
I will read it.your support is every time very effective
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Kiran Kumar Transformation Management Office Viernheim, Germany
Fosco, here are the 7 principles that Francis talks about
1. Dignity refers to treating each individual as an end rather than a means. This means respecting the interests of other.
2. Equitability is being just, fair and even-handed in decisions.
3. Prudence requires people to exercise a degree of judgement that makes a situation no worse, and applies when decisions must be made about recalling products that cause illness or are unsafe.
4. Honesty is reflected in straightforwardness, truthfulness and avoidance of lying, cheating or stealing.
5. Openness is about not concealing that which should be revealed.
6. Goodwill is about concern for others reflected in kindness and tolerance.
7. 'Avoidance of suffering' supports the view that pain and suffering should be prevented and alleviated arises in decisions about for example, the level of care and expense that should be invested in avoiding oil spills, avoiding production for chemical or biological warfare, or avoiding investment in some industries such as the tobacco industry.

I just quoted Francis (Australian professor) as I recently read his paper, but you could find similar references from other great minds. the 2 reference i have given below
1. Francis, R.D. 2000. Ethics and corporate governance: an Australian handbook. Sydney: Univ. of NSW Press
2. Francis, R.D. and Armstrong, A.F. 2000. `Can ethical commitment be gauged from company annual reports?’ Australian journal of professional and applied ethics. 2 1 54-60
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2 replies by Steven Zachary and fosco frongia
Dec 30, 2015 2:23 AM
Steven Zachary
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What a gem, thanks Kiran. There is so much quality work on ethics. It also kind of rolls into neuroscience. Have you read and Kahnmen?
Dec 30, 2015 4:48 PM
fosco frongia
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thanks Kiram,
the 7 principles are very interesting and deserves a more deeply investigation.
Thanks for the references i will look for them.
Considering your first point in your original comment, I understand you consider the relationship between risk and ethic more as a connection between decisions and poor information than connection between decision and lack in strategy (due to no long therm vision). Am I right?
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Humberto Ramos PM Consultant| NSN México D.F., Distrito Federal, Mexico
Definitely there is a relationship between “bad Ethics” and “Poor RM”. If an organization is reluctant to implement Good RM practices, many times, subjacent root cause in bad ethics. With a “We do not need RM here because we trust people”, or “.. Because its cost is not justified”… there is actually fear to have bad behaviors uncovered.
However RM does not prevent or mitigate bad ethics by itself. Visualizing bad-ethics as a misconduct that need to be managed or mitigated is using a police-and-persecute approach. It does not work. In my Country there is a saying that states: “rule done, then workaround done”.
Bad ethics is confronted with transparency, good governance frameworks, training and setting examples from the top… independently of amplitude of vision
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2 replies by Steven Zachary and fosco frongia
Dec 30, 2015 2:24 AM
Steven Zachary
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I would add removing incentives to act unethically, finding ways to reward ethical behavior and implementing metrics to track governance.
Dec 30, 2015 4:56 PM
fosco frongia
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many thanks Humberto,
in my question I based my assertion in considering bad ethics involuntary (in some cases obviously) and depending from a lack of vision. from your words I understand you not consider this aspect as possible but you consider that the poor knowledge is intentionally used like alibi to cover voluntary behavior.
other request... puedes escribirme en castellano el dicho que citas?
muchas gracias
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Steven Zachary Director| Alberta Health Services Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Dec 28, 2015 8:12 AM
Replying to Kiran Kumar
...
Simply stating risk entails a threat posed by the failure in decision making and managing of risk is how well we manage the resources (not just human) and management of stakeholders. The second aspect is something I believe has a closer relationship with ethics :). Francis describes 7 ethical principles and all of them have in one form or the other impact the risks, which are more at a Business or Corporate level. CSR (corporate social responsibility) is also relevant in this regard.
Kiran,

Francis? Care to share a link?
avatar
Steven Zachary Director| Alberta Health Services Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Dec 28, 2015 12:19 PM
Replying to Rami Kaibni
...
Good risk management requires good ethics; and good ethics require good risk management. Please read the following article:

https://www.irmi.com/articles/expert-comme...ment-and-ethics

Hope this helps.
Great resource Rami, thank you!
...
1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Dec 30, 2015 2:29 AM
Rami Kaibni
...
Thank you Steven, my pleasure. Glad you found it useful.
avatar
Steven Zachary Director| Alberta Health Services Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Dec 29, 2015 3:58 AM
Replying to Kiran Kumar
...
Fosco, here are the 7 principles that Francis talks about
1. Dignity refers to treating each individual as an end rather than a means. This means respecting the interests of other.
2. Equitability is being just, fair and even-handed in decisions.
3. Prudence requires people to exercise a degree of judgement that makes a situation no worse, and applies when decisions must be made about recalling products that cause illness or are unsafe.
4. Honesty is reflected in straightforwardness, truthfulness and avoidance of lying, cheating or stealing.
5. Openness is about not concealing that which should be revealed.
6. Goodwill is about concern for others reflected in kindness and tolerance.
7. 'Avoidance of suffering' supports the view that pain and suffering should be prevented and alleviated arises in decisions about for example, the level of care and expense that should be invested in avoiding oil spills, avoiding production for chemical or biological warfare, or avoiding investment in some industries such as the tobacco industry.

I just quoted Francis (Australian professor) as I recently read his paper, but you could find similar references from other great minds. the 2 reference i have given below
1. Francis, R.D. 2000. Ethics and corporate governance: an Australian handbook. Sydney: Univ. of NSW Press
2. Francis, R.D. and Armstrong, A.F. 2000. `Can ethical commitment be gauged from company annual reports?’ Australian journal of professional and applied ethics. 2 1 54-60
What a gem, thanks Kiran. There is so much quality work on ethics. It also kind of rolls into neuroscience. Have you read and Kahnmen?
...
1 reply by fosco frongia
Dec 30, 2015 4:59 PM
fosco frongia
...
thanks Steven;
may you share any references?
thanks
avatar
Steven Zachary Director| Alberta Health Services Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Dec 29, 2015 2:02 PM
Replying to Humberto Ramos
...
Definitely there is a relationship between “bad Ethics” and “Poor RM”. If an organization is reluctant to implement Good RM practices, many times, subjacent root cause in bad ethics. With a “We do not need RM here because we trust people”, or “.. Because its cost is not justified”… there is actually fear to have bad behaviors uncovered.
However RM does not prevent or mitigate bad ethics by itself. Visualizing bad-ethics as a misconduct that need to be managed or mitigated is using a police-and-persecute approach. It does not work. In my Country there is a saying that states: “rule done, then workaround done”.
Bad ethics is confronted with transparency, good governance frameworks, training and setting examples from the top… independently of amplitude of vision
I would add removing incentives to act unethically, finding ways to reward ethical behavior and implementing metrics to track governance.
...
1 reply by fosco frongia
Dec 30, 2015 5:04 PM
fosco frongia
...
That sound good Steven,
and work well when people act badly intentionally. But do you think the unethical behavior could be due to poor analysis? and If you think in that manner how we can reduce this risk?
many thanks
avatar
Rami Kaibni
Community Champion
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten Associates New Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Dec 30, 2015 2:21 AM
Replying to Steven Zachary
...
Great resource Rami, thank you!
Thank you Steven, my pleasure. Glad you found it useful.
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