fosco frongiaSenior project manager| ENTE PATRIMONIALE CHIESA GESU' CRISTO SUGFino Mornasco, Como, Italy
since several weeks we are discussing about Ethics
It was commented that Ethics is influenced by culture and education.
Do you agree with this comment?
if you don't agree, may you explain why?
And in the case you agree, considering an international context, how we can "create" a common and accepted ethic code?
many thanks in advance for your contribution Saving Changes...
Steven ZacharyDirector| Alberta Health ServicesCalgary, Alberta, Canada
Here are two definitions of culture:
culĀ·ture
1.
the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.
"20th century popular culture"
synonyms: the arts, the humanities, intellectual achievement; literature, music, painting, philosophy, the performing arts
"exposing their children to culture"
2.
the quality in a person or society that arises from a concern for what is regarded as excellent in arts, letters, manners, scholarly pursuits, etc.
Perhaps you meant company culture? Which would vary vastly from one organization to the next despite their close proximity?
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Jan 03, 2016 1:52 PM
Rami Kaibni
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Steven,
I know exactly what is the meaning of culture but thanks for reminding me. I meant Nation or Country Culture, not company culture. I know what I am talking about.
Saving Changes...
Steven ZacharyDirector| Alberta Health ServicesCalgary, Alberta, Canada
Jan 03, 2016 6:36 AM
Replying to Rami Kaibni
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Working Hours, Days, Labor Laws are all part of the culture.
Example 1: In the middle east, part of the religious culture is the Friday Prayer. Accordingly, thr official day off there is Friday. All other days are working days (Construction Projects there run 6 days a week except Friday). Being the case, part of the labor law is the working days / hours. It is all related to culture. In other countries like Canada, days off are Sat/Sun.
Example 2: Part of the culture in the middle east is to support local products / subcontractors so in all contracts, there is a clause that mentions this and states that if material was purchased from overseas with a price difference less than 20% of the local market then the Project will be penalized. You have to tailor your estimation to accompdate this requirement. In other countries, you are flexible to purchase from wherever the project finds it suitable and supports the project itself, not the local market.
You might not consider the above as cultural factors but I do because I know for a fact that they are strictly related to the culture.
Both of the examples are still laws. They may be geographically specific, but it's more just "comply with local laws and regulations".
If an example was, it is offensive to wear orange but not illegal, that is cultural risk not identified in the legal risk with the risk register.
I'm focusing on the definitions of culture risk here, I acknowledge the examples above are risks if not identified. Otherwise they are typically identified and mitigated in the risk plan in Planning stage.
What are your thoughts Rami?
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Jan 03, 2016 2:16 PM
Rami Kaibni
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These are part of the culture (A few of many examples that I can give you) and became part of the Local Laws. I have been working overseas for years and I am very well aware that such issues are cultural before being part of the law and identified under Cultural Risks in the Risk Register.
Such risks are most of the time identified and taken into account in the planning. I was just trying to explain to Fosco that even if the company is multi-national and decent in size, they can reinforce part of their culture and the other part they have to comply with the countries culture because if they do not consider this part in their planning then those could have negative impact.
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Jan 03, 2016 1:50 PM
Replying to Steven Zachary
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Here are two definitions of culture:
culĀ·ture
1.
the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.
"20th century popular culture"
synonyms: the arts, the humanities, intellectual achievement; literature, music, painting, philosophy, the performing arts
"exposing their children to culture"
2.
the quality in a person or society that arises from a concern for what is regarded as excellent in arts, letters, manners, scholarly pursuits, etc.
Perhaps you meant company culture? Which would vary vastly from one organization to the next despite their close proximity?
Steven,
I know exactly what is the meaning of culture but thanks for reminding me. I meant Nation or Country Culture, not company culture. I know what I am talking about.
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1 reply by Steven Zachary
Jan 03, 2016 2:15 PM
Steven Zachary
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I see.
Well if you know what you're talking about then I suppose I shouldn't press the issue. Maybe my understanding of cultural vs legal risk needs work.
Have a great day :)
Saving Changes...
Steven ZacharyDirector| Alberta Health ServicesCalgary, Alberta, Canada
Jan 03, 2016 1:52 PM
Replying to Rami Kaibni
...
Steven,
I know exactly what is the meaning of culture but thanks for reminding me. I meant Nation or Country Culture, not company culture. I know what I am talking about.
I see.
Well if you know what you're talking about then I suppose I shouldn't press the issue. Maybe my understanding of cultural vs legal risk needs work.
Have a great day :)
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Jan 03, 2016 2:24 PM
Rami Kaibni
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Probably, I can't comment on this part, you know better. It might also be that different countries defines things in different ways or might be that in Canada it is different than overseas or Western is different from the Middle East.
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Jan 03, 2016 1:52 PM
Replying to Steven Zachary
...
Both of the examples are still laws. They may be geographically specific, but it's more just "comply with local laws and regulations".
If an example was, it is offensive to wear orange but not illegal, that is cultural risk not identified in the legal risk with the risk register.
I'm focusing on the definitions of culture risk here, I acknowledge the examples above are risks if not identified. Otherwise they are typically identified and mitigated in the risk plan in Planning stage.
What are your thoughts Rami?
These are part of the culture (A few of many examples that I can give you) and became part of the Local Laws. I have been working overseas for years and I am very well aware that such issues are cultural before being part of the law and identified under Cultural Risks in the Risk Register.
Such risks are most of the time identified and taken into account in the planning. I was just trying to explain to Fosco that even if the company is multi-national and decent in size, they can reinforce part of their culture and the other part they have to comply with the countries culture because if they do not consider this part in their planning then those could have negative impact.
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1 reply by Steven Zachary
Jan 03, 2016 2:18 PM
Steven Zachary
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Sounds good Rami.
Saving Changes...
Steven ZacharyDirector| Alberta Health ServicesCalgary, Alberta, Canada
Jan 03, 2016 2:16 PM
Replying to Rami Kaibni
...
These are part of the culture (A few of many examples that I can give you) and became part of the Local Laws. I have been working overseas for years and I am very well aware that such issues are cultural before being part of the law and identified under Cultural Risks in the Risk Register.
Such risks are most of the time identified and taken into account in the planning. I was just trying to explain to Fosco that even if the company is multi-national and decent in size, they can reinforce part of their culture and the other part they have to comply with the countries culture because if they do not consider this part in their planning then those could have negative impact.
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Jan 03, 2016 2:15 PM
Replying to Steven Zachary
...
I see.
Well if you know what you're talking about then I suppose I shouldn't press the issue. Maybe my understanding of cultural vs legal risk needs work.
Have a great day :)
Probably, I can't comment on this part, you know better. It might also be that different countries defines things in different ways or might be that in Canada it is different than overseas or Western is different from the Middle East.
Have a great day too Steven :-) Saving Changes...
fosco frongiaSenior project manager| ENTE PATRIMONIALE CHIESA GESU' CRISTO SUGFino Mornasco, Como, Italy
thanks Steven, for definition a code is a human construct... based on principles, do you agree with?. Saving Changes...
fosco frongiaSenior project manager| ENTE PATRIMONIALE CHIESA GESU' CRISTO SUGFino Mornasco, Como, Italy
Jan 02, 2016 8:38 AM
Replying to Rami Kaibni
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Fosco,
I think they all compliment each other, like usually you say: Educate your people about culture.
On the second part, from my experience, they can impose their ethical code to a cetain limit and on certain things that are inter-company but when it comes to things that has to do with the culture of the country they are operating in, they have to follow that culture to avoid conflict and increased risk.
thanks Rami,
I agree with you and this is the matter of my question: a common code cannot be imposed by the strongest group but it have to be accepted because is in syntony with the principles which guide every group.
In other words an Ethical code should be based on common principles because in this manner this code is OUR common code. Only in this manner we are morally engaged for respecting it.
It is very important for international companies which have to "survive" in international contexts.
But: what about the situation of an international company which working in another country realize that some rule in this country are against its principles or code?
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Jan 11, 2016 7:44 PM
Rami Kaibni
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Hi Fosco,
This is exactly what I was trying to say and give an example of a company operating overseas in a country where some rules are against its code. I worked for an international company operating in 50 countries. In many occasions / countries, we had to adjust our code (Within Limit and Applicable to that country of operation only) to adapt with the current situation but of course, we assess this deviation first.
Saving Changes...
fosco frongiaSenior project manager| ENTE PATRIMONIALE CHIESA GESU' CRISTO SUGFino Mornasco, Como, Italy
Jan 02, 2016 11:07 AM
Replying to Steven Zachary
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I don't follow, are you coming at this from a project perspective?
What risk would occur by not complying with cultural norms.
Canada should be a prime example of this.
Hi Steven,
I agree with Rami, laws are influenced by culture too, remember racial laws in some countries
(e.g. in the past in South Africa) and some discriminating laws that you can found in other ones. The matter is: it is possible to go over these problems adopting a common, and accepted, code? Saving Changes...