fosco frongiaSenior project manager| ENTE PATRIMONIALE CHIESA GESU' CRISTO SUGFino Mornasco, Como, Italy
since several weeks we are discussing about Ethics
It was commented that Ethics is influenced by culture and education.
Do you agree with this comment?
if you don't agree, may you explain why?
And in the case you agree, considering an international context, how we can "create" a common and accepted ethic code?
many thanks in advance for your contribution Saving Changes...
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Jan 11, 2016 6:21 PM
Replying to fosco frongia
...
thanks Rami,
I agree with you and this is the matter of my question: a common code cannot be imposed by the strongest group but it have to be accepted because is in syntony with the principles which guide every group.
In other words an Ethical code should be based on common principles because in this manner this code is OUR common code. Only in this manner we are morally engaged for respecting it.
It is very important for international companies which have to "survive" in international contexts.
But: what about the situation of an international company which working in another country realize that some rule in this country are against its principles or code?
Hi Fosco,
This is exactly what I was trying to say and give an example of a company operating overseas in a country where some rules are against its code. I worked for an international company operating in 50 countries. In many occasions / countries, we had to adjust our code (Within Limit and Applicable to that country of operation only) to adapt with the current situation but of course, we assess this deviation first.
...
1 reply by fosco frongia
Jan 16, 2016 10:05 AM
fosco frongia
...
Hi Rami,
when you talk about adjust the code do you have talking about some modification that affect operational issues or you are including moral issues too?
Saving Changes...
Markus KopkoAI Enabler for Project & Program Mgmt | Founder PMotion.ai / The PM
AI Coach| PMotion.aiHamburg, Hamburg, Germany
Hello Fosco,
you wrote:
" ... But: what about the situation of an international company which working in another country realize that some rule in this country are against its principles or code? ... "
Cause you asked me, here are my thoughts to this:
Well, of course we have such a code of ethics and compliance in our company and that is for some reason.
If we now generate a business opportunity in a country where some laws and/or regulations against our "Code" than the management will have a serious decision to make.
To be conseqzently they have to let go the business opportunity imho or otherwise they have to adjust the company's code.
Again, the code is there for some reason!
Regarding the overall topic in this thread i would tend to that what Steven has mentioned here and my personal opinion is, that it would be impossible to conduct such a general code what i guess you have in mind.
I do not know if you aware what actually happens in germany regarding all the refugees coming to germany and europe (italy also as far as i know).
So actually we have a really difficult discussion about cultural codes and convivtions. ...
...
2 replies by Rami Kaibni and fosco frongia
Jan 15, 2016 10:19 AM
Rami Kaibni
...
Markus, true, we all agree that there is no way to do one general code.
Jan 16, 2016 10:28 AM
fosco frongia
...
hello Markus,
concerning the first part of your answer (management decision) i know very well the matter and the decision is not very easy! At least the is: is it better to break our moral code and open a new business opportunity or it is better to respect the Code anyway?
Personally I think it is better to maintain "safe" the Moral Code because, if we consider it in a long time perspective, this is the most "profitable" way (you maintain your company image - reliability etc.).
concerning the impossibility to have a general code: this is true; it is quite impossible to have it if you consider a code which cover all aspects (... a perfect code?) but it is possible to "recollect" some principles which are valid in the most part of the countries
Other way is to impose your code: if you want to join an organization you must accept the code (PMI code is an example), but this case is quite different: YOU WANT to join the organization ( in the other case is the ORGANIZATION which WANT to open other market ..)
I know very well refugees problem, is the same in Italy too with problem concerning cultural codes and cohabitation of diffenrent cultures
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Jan 15, 2016 5:28 AM
Replying to Markus Kopko
...
Hello Fosco,
you wrote:
" ... But: what about the situation of an international company which working in another country realize that some rule in this country are against its principles or code? ... "
Cause you asked me, here are my thoughts to this:
Well, of course we have such a code of ethics and compliance in our company and that is for some reason.
If we now generate a business opportunity in a country where some laws and/or regulations against our "Code" than the management will have a serious decision to make.
To be conseqzently they have to let go the business opportunity imho or otherwise they have to adjust the company's code.
Again, the code is there for some reason!
Regarding the overall topic in this thread i would tend to that what Steven has mentioned here and my personal opinion is, that it would be impossible to conduct such a general code what i guess you have in mind.
I do not know if you aware what actually happens in germany regarding all the refugees coming to germany and europe (italy also as far as i know).
So actually we have a really difficult discussion about cultural codes and convivtions. ...
Markus, true, we all agree that there is no way to do one general code. Saving Changes...
fosco frongiaSenior project manager| ENTE PATRIMONIALE CHIESA GESU' CRISTO SUGFino Mornasco, Como, Italy
Jan 11, 2016 7:44 PM
Replying to Rami Kaibni
...
Hi Fosco,
This is exactly what I was trying to say and give an example of a company operating overseas in a country where some rules are against its code. I worked for an international company operating in 50 countries. In many occasions / countries, we had to adjust our code (Within Limit and Applicable to that country of operation only) to adapt with the current situation but of course, we assess this deviation first.
Hi Rami,
when you talk about adjust the code do you have talking about some modification that affect operational issues or you are including moral issues too?
...
1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Jan 16, 2016 3:04 PM
Rami Kaibni
...
Hi Fosco, Can you explain please what you exactly mean by moral issues ?
Saving Changes...
fosco frongiaSenior project manager| ENTE PATRIMONIALE CHIESA GESU' CRISTO SUGFino Mornasco, Como, Italy
Jan 15, 2016 5:28 AM
Replying to Markus Kopko
...
Hello Fosco,
you wrote:
" ... But: what about the situation of an international company which working in another country realize that some rule in this country are against its principles or code? ... "
Cause you asked me, here are my thoughts to this:
Well, of course we have such a code of ethics and compliance in our company and that is for some reason.
If we now generate a business opportunity in a country where some laws and/or regulations against our "Code" than the management will have a serious decision to make.
To be conseqzently they have to let go the business opportunity imho or otherwise they have to adjust the company's code.
Again, the code is there for some reason!
Regarding the overall topic in this thread i would tend to that what Steven has mentioned here and my personal opinion is, that it would be impossible to conduct such a general code what i guess you have in mind.
I do not know if you aware what actually happens in germany regarding all the refugees coming to germany and europe (italy also as far as i know).
So actually we have a really difficult discussion about cultural codes and convivtions. ...
hello Markus,
concerning the first part of your answer (management decision) i know very well the matter and the decision is not very easy! At least the is: is it better to break our moral code and open a new business opportunity or it is better to respect the Code anyway?
Personally I think it is better to maintain "safe" the Moral Code because, if we consider it in a long time perspective, this is the most "profitable" way (you maintain your company image - reliability etc.).
concerning the impossibility to have a general code: this is true; it is quite impossible to have it if you consider a code which cover all aspects (... a perfect code?) but it is possible to "recollect" some principles which are valid in the most part of the countries
Other way is to impose your code: if you want to join an organization you must accept the code (PMI code is an example), but this case is quite different: YOU WANT to join the organization ( in the other case is the ORGANIZATION which WANT to open other market ..)
I know very well refugees problem, is the same in Italy too with problem concerning cultural codes and cohabitation of diffenrent cultures Saving Changes...
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Jan 16, 2016 10:05 AM
Replying to fosco frongia
...
Hi Rami,
when you talk about adjust the code do you have talking about some modification that affect operational issues or you are including moral issues too?
Hi Fosco, Can you explain please what you exactly mean by moral issues ?
...
1 reply by fosco frongia
Jan 18, 2016 5:19 AM
fosco frongia
...
my question is: when you had to modify the code it was done about "operational" elements like increment the maximum limit for gifts or you had to implement some changes which influence moral elements code e.g. accept discrimination in salary, limits in position assignment different respect skills?
Saving Changes...
fosco frongiaSenior project manager| ENTE PATRIMONIALE CHIESA GESU' CRISTO SUGFino Mornasco, Como, Italy
Jan 16, 2016 3:04 PM
Replying to Rami Kaibni
...
Hi Fosco, Can you explain please what you exactly mean by moral issues ?
my question is: when you had to modify the code it was done about "operational" elements like increment the maximum limit for gifts or you had to implement some changes which influence moral elements code e.g. accept discrimination in salary, limits in position assignment different respect skills?
...
1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Jan 18, 2016 3:23 PM
Rami Kaibni
...
No, not really except the one for limits in position assignment but gift is a no-no situation unless it is an award. As an exmaple, sometimes we had to adjust resources recruitment as in some countries you are obligated to recruit 50% locals and other management staff especially if thr project was for the government.
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Jan 18, 2016 5:19 AM
Replying to fosco frongia
...
my question is: when you had to modify the code it was done about "operational" elements like increment the maximum limit for gifts or you had to implement some changes which influence moral elements code e.g. accept discrimination in salary, limits in position assignment different respect skills?
No, not really except the one for limits in position assignment but gift is a no-no situation unless it is an award. As an exmaple, sometimes we had to adjust resources recruitment as in some countries you are obligated to recruit 50% locals and other management staff especially if thr project was for the government. Saving Changes...
fosco frongiaSenior project manager| ENTE PATRIMONIALE CHIESA GESU' CRISTO SUGFino Mornasco, Como, Italy
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