saurabh mahajanPMP, ITIL, PRINCE2| vodafonePune, Maharashtra, India
I want know if the cost and schedule estimates that you create are they accurate ? Because I see/hear many managers even though use estimation techniques using padding to be on safer side. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
We need to understand what an estimation is. Estimation is the best guess based on the available information and the time you have. The key is to have the needed information. That is because you can find things like Barry Bohem´s "Cone of Uncertainty" which is the tool most used beside IT or software to understand the final numbers. The other thing is: how we publish the estimation results? It is dificult to find people who publish the resuls using a range. All of this is independ to use padding or not. What somebody name padding and other buffer can be used to make visible the possible inherent error that must be recorded as risks. Saving Changes...
PANKAJ KUMAR JOSHIGeneral Manager| Transrail Lighting LimitedNainital, Uttrakhand, India
Estimations always carry some uncertainty.
Either you consider it as risk and add a contingency or some guys do padding (to avoid taking approval for funds). Saving Changes...
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Padding is something that is not advisable at all to be used (PMI also does not allow it) because it could nail down the project at some point and destroy the credibility of the project manager. I am 100% against padding as IMHO it is aN unprofessional thing to do.
Uncertainty is part of the estimation, you start with a ROM Estimate during initiation (-25% to +75% Uncertainty) then during planning you do more accurate estimate so the uncertainty goes down and with progressive elaboration you will be able to reach to an estimate with has +10% to 10% uncertainty.
Uncertainties should be accounted for in Contingency Reserve for Known-Unknowns and in Management Reserve to Unknown-Unknowns.
During the life cycle of the project, you always keep recalculating and updating the estimate at completion, checking, monitoring and controlling - You can never get to 100% Estimate.
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1 reply by Stéphane Parent
Feb 23, 2016 7:38 PM
Stéphane Parent
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I would say, Rami, that you will get a 100% estimate when the work is completed. :)
Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Feb 23, 2016 3:10 PM
Replying to Rami Kaibni
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Padding is something that is not advisable at all to be used (PMI also does not allow it) because it could nail down the project at some point and destroy the credibility of the project manager. I am 100% against padding as IMHO it is aN unprofessional thing to do.
Uncertainty is part of the estimation, you start with a ROM Estimate during initiation (-25% to +75% Uncertainty) then during planning you do more accurate estimate so the uncertainty goes down and with progressive elaboration you will be able to reach to an estimate with has +10% to 10% uncertainty.
Uncertainties should be accounted for in Contingency Reserve for Known-Unknowns and in Management Reserve to Unknown-Unknowns.
During the life cycle of the project, you always keep recalculating and updating the estimate at completion, checking, monitoring and controlling - You can never get to 100% Estimate.
I would say, Rami, that you will get a 100% estimate when the work is completed. :)
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Feb 23, 2016 10:10 PM
Rami Kaibni
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In fact this is a true statement but by then its too late - Lessons Learned :D
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Feb 23, 2016 7:38 PM
Replying to Stéphane Parent
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I would say, Rami, that you will get a 100% estimate when the work is completed. :)
In fact this is a true statement but by then its too late - Lessons Learned :D Saving Changes...
Anonymous
My estimations were not so accurate, in fact this is a matter on what I'm working to improve. Mainly were not accurate for the following reasons:
- lack of experience
- presence of innovation in some projects and relative learning curve
- change of the priority during the project life cycle (in multi project management)
- sloppy evaluation of the tasks (not detailed)
Now I'm improving that by:
- increasing the detail level of the tasks
- introducing risk management process and relevant contingency and management reserve
- building a database of the historical estimation and actuals to have historical data for successive estimation
- using estimation techiniques like PERT
Anyway also using these techniques get estimation accurate in initiation phase is very difficult because the uncertainy is too high to obtain an acceptable accuracy (+/- 10-20% depending on the project dimension).
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1 reply by Paolo Cornali
Feb 24, 2016 12:58 AM
Paolo Cornali
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This post is mine.
Now I have seen why it is posted as anonymous. When I was writing I was logged, but when I have clicked on Post Reply and the page refreshed I resulted logged out. Is there some of the community manager that know why? Am I wrong something? Thanks in advance.
Saving Changes...
Paolo CornaliProject Manager| HTA srlBrescia, Lombardia, Italy
This post is mine.
Now I have seen why it is posted as anonymous. When I was writing I was logged, but when I have clicked on Post Reply and the page refreshed I resulted logged out. Is there some of the community manager that know why? Am I wrong something? Thanks in advance.
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Feb 24, 2016 8:51 AM
Rami Kaibni
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Paolo,
When you post a comment, look under your picture, there is a box and beside it written "Post Anonumously". Make sure this is not checked as I believe this is the issue. If you are logged out, you can't comment at all as far as I am aware so I doubt this could be the problem.
Estimates are by definition guesses, in my opinion accurate estimation is contradiction in terms.
In the projects that I have worked so far the responsibility for producing the estimation for the effort to complete the tasks didn't belong to the project managers but to the senior subject matters experts that were providing technical leadership to the team. Frankly I can't imagine how can a person that is not able to perform a task can predict the time needed for its completion.
In IT projects, especially in those that involve software development, estimation is in many cases poor even when it is being produced by experienced developers. If I were a project manager I would report longer time to complete the project than the IT consultants/developers have estimated and I would not share this information with them. :P
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Feb 24, 2016 8:55 AM
Rami Kaibni
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Adrian,
I somehow disagree with part of what you've metioned, if I may of course. Estimation is not just guessing (Padding is Guessing). Estimation is based on structured analysis, assumptions, and facts.
On the other hand, I find the practice of reporting longer time than estimated and not informing or sharing this with others as contradicting to Project Management Standards unless you have a solid reason.
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Feb 24, 2016 12:58 AM
Replying to Paolo Cornali
...
This post is mine.
Now I have seen why it is posted as anonymous. When I was writing I was logged, but when I have clicked on Post Reply and the page refreshed I resulted logged out. Is there some of the community manager that know why? Am I wrong something? Thanks in advance.
Paolo,
When you post a comment, look under your picture, there is a box and beside it written "Post Anonumously". Make sure this is not checked as I believe this is the issue. If you are logged out, you can't comment at all as far as I am aware so I doubt this could be the problem.
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1 reply by Paolo Cornali
Feb 25, 2016 12:16 AM
Paolo Cornali
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The first time that happened I believed that it was the issue (post anonymously checked), but the second time I was sure that the flag was unchecked. And the third time (this one) I was sure too, because when I click on Post Reply I could saw my photo on the left (when you checked Post anonymously the photo disappear and appear a ?). Moreover I said that I was logged when I was writing the post (as you said is not possible to comment if you are not logged in), but when I have clicked on Post Reply and the page refreshed I resulted logged out (I didn't see "Hello Paolo" on the top-right of the page).
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Feb 24, 2016 5:17 AM
Replying to Adrian Carlogea
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Estimates are by definition guesses, in my opinion accurate estimation is contradiction in terms.
In the projects that I have worked so far the responsibility for producing the estimation for the effort to complete the tasks didn't belong to the project managers but to the senior subject matters experts that were providing technical leadership to the team. Frankly I can't imagine how can a person that is not able to perform a task can predict the time needed for its completion.
In IT projects, especially in those that involve software development, estimation is in many cases poor even when it is being produced by experienced developers. If I were a project manager I would report longer time to complete the project than the IT consultants/developers have estimated and I would not share this information with them. :P
Adrian,
I somehow disagree with part of what you've metioned, if I may of course. Estimation is not just guessing (Padding is Guessing). Estimation is based on structured analysis, assumptions, and facts.
On the other hand, I find the practice of reporting longer time than estimated and not informing or sharing this with others as contradicting to Project Management Standards unless you have a solid reason.
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1 reply by Adrian Carlogea
Feb 26, 2016 4:23 AM
Adrian Carlogea
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I think the word guess was a little bit unfortunate as indeed when you are producing an estimation you do apply some logic and you are not making the numbers out of thin air.
However, in my projects at least, the degree of uncertainty is pretty large so you can never be sure that your estimations were correct before the work is completed.
In my projects estimations are based on the effort estimates done by the subject matter experts who analyze the requirements define the technical tasks required to complete the work and then estimate the effort for each task.
When I am asked to estimate the effort I try to imagine how will it be working on the requirement and what does it take to complete it. So I make a sort of plan of the low level tasks required and then from experience I am able to compute the numbers for the completion of each low level task. Working experience is crucial in effort estimation and lack of experience will make your estimations to be real guesses.
If the requirements are not dependent on each other then the project manager will have an easier life as he will be able to divide the number of man hours to the team members that will complete the requirements. However when there are strong dependencies between tasks and worse sub-functional teams inside the project team then the project manager needs to work hard to estimate the whole project or phases of it.
In addition the project managers have to take into account other variables in the process a part from the actual work effort for instance in a software development process many tests may fail which will require rework and usually developers can't estimate this so the project manager needs to find other mechanism for estimation.