saurabh mahajanPMP, ITIL, PRINCE2| vodafonePune, Maharashtra, India
From a project manager's point of view when can he/she say the project is success
1) Only when the results meet client needs in defined time and cost ?
2) When project manager has managed all project management areas well ? even if he/she manages 8 areas well out of 10 knowledge areas can the project be success ?
or questions like below also should add to project success
1) is the team happy to work ?
2) Is the manager good ? Saving Changes...
Rick Atherton Jr., PMPProject Manager| Johnson & Galyon ConstructionKnoxville, TN, United States
I believe the most critical measurement for project success is the satisfaction of the client. Even if you meet all of the requirements from the project management plan/charter and the triple-constraint (and all of the other various constraints are met), if the product isn't useful to the client then it was not successful. You should strive, throughout the project, to test each phase with the client to gain feedback on the product, thus-far, and to make any appropriate changes to steer the project to alignment with the client's expectations. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Sorry, but I disagree with some points regarding the product and client satisfaction. Project manager is not accountable for product definition. Then, the only thing the project manager can do is working in quality aspect to deliver the product as defined, and only the product as defined, not other. We need to understand that project management is about work needed to create a product/service/result but business analysis is about to define the product/service/result. And business analyst is the role accountable for getting client satisfaction. Obviously both must work in collaboration. Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
I'm with Sergio. As a project manager, our job is to create the product. Whether the intended product will still be useful when delivered falls under the product owner's responsibility, whether the BA or the customer. Saving Changes...
Rick Atherton Jr., PMPProject Manager| Johnson & Galyon ConstructionKnoxville, TN, United States
A project manager is just as responsible for managing client expectations and working with them to produce a product that both meets the original requirements "(to ensure the project produces what it was created to produce) and fitness for use (the product or service needs to satisfy the real needs)" (PMI, 2013 p.229). Who wants to work for months or years on a project to find out that in the end, it was useless to the customer?
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2 replies by Sergio Luis Conte and Stéphane Parent
Oct 12, 2017 8:56 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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What you state is quality. That´s what I stated before. And all a project manager can do is about work needed, not to other things. If you check the new version of PMBOK Guide all this is clearly explained, mainly in the scope chapter. The project is not useless. The product is useless. And the project manager is not accountable to defined the product. It is accountable for creating the product as defined. And that is quality
Oct 12, 2017 9:07 AM
Stéphane Parent
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All we have to work from, Rick, is the "original requirements". If they no longer meet the "fitness for use", the product owner, not the project manager, has to revise the requirements.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Oct 12, 2017 8:14 AM
Replying to Rick Atherton Jr., PMP
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A project manager is just as responsible for managing client expectations and working with them to produce a product that both meets the original requirements "(to ensure the project produces what it was created to produce) and fitness for use (the product or service needs to satisfy the real needs)" (PMI, 2013 p.229). Who wants to work for months or years on a project to find out that in the end, it was useless to the customer?
What you state is quality. That´s what I stated before. And all a project manager can do is about work needed, not to other things. If you check the new version of PMBOK Guide all this is clearly explained, mainly in the scope chapter. The project is not useless. The product is useless. And the project manager is not accountable to defined the product. It is accountable for creating the product as defined. And that is quality Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Oct 12, 2017 8:14 AM
Replying to Rick Atherton Jr., PMP
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A project manager is just as responsible for managing client expectations and working with them to produce a product that both meets the original requirements "(to ensure the project produces what it was created to produce) and fitness for use (the product or service needs to satisfy the real needs)" (PMI, 2013 p.229). Who wants to work for months or years on a project to find out that in the end, it was useless to the customer?
All we have to work from, Rick, is the "original requirements". If they no longer meet the "fitness for use", the product owner, not the project manager, has to revise the requirements.
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1 reply by Khawaja Saif ur Rehman
Oct 12, 2017 2:20 PM
Khawaja Saif ur Rehman
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I'm forgetting, what is the name of project management class in which requirements are reviewed intermittently? As far as I remember it is used in software development where with the passage of development of product, the requirements are reviewed.
All we have to work from, Rick, is the "original requirements". If they no longer meet the "fitness for use", the product owner, not the project manager, has to revise the requirements.
I'm forgetting, what is the name of project management class in which requirements are reviewed intermittently? As far as I remember it is used in software development where with the passage of development of product, the requirements are reviewed.
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1 reply by Stéphane Parent
Oct 12, 2017 2:32 PM
Stéphane Parent
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Under BABOK, Validate Requirements would fill that need: "Requirements validation is an ongoing process to ensure that stakeholder, solution, and transition requirements align to the business requirements."
Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Oct 12, 2017 2:20 PM
Replying to Khawaja Saif ur Rehman
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I'm forgetting, what is the name of project management class in which requirements are reviewed intermittently? As far as I remember it is used in software development where with the passage of development of product, the requirements are reviewed.
Under BABOK, Validate Requirements would fill that need: "Requirements validation is an ongoing process to ensure that stakeholder, solution, and transition requirements align to the business requirements." Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Apr 25, 2016 2:42 PM
Replying to Carla Fair-Wright
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Sergio, I think Elizabeth is making a valid argument. Validating useful outcome is often part of the pre-project activities, but can (in my experience) be part of the Project Manager’s task. It is true that not all companies have the same level of maturity in their processes (Hurdle rates or Decision Quality methods), but there is usually some method to determine the value of a project. Why are we doing this? What is the return in profit or increased efficiency? The “Useful outcome” is defined in the “Why” of the project.
That is the problem. The profit is not returned by the project. Profit is returned by the product/service/result created by the project. When you read the new version of the PMBOK Guide you will see lot of work making on that. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Apr 25, 2016 4:26 PM
Replying to Elizabeth Harrin
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Sergio, thanks for responding to my comment. I think the role of the project manager used to be exactly what you describe, and in many places that is still the case. However, I think the discipline of project management is changing and that the role of the PM is evolving into something else, which does see us getting involved more and more in the 'adding value' part of doing new work and not purely in the role of delivering what someone else has scoped. It will be interesting to see how far this goes and whether this is supported by the professional bodies over time. But without the ability to execute, project managers can add little if any value, so we need to be able to do both.
Fully agree with you. And that evolution is to perform the role of Business Analyst. In the new versions of the guides and standards there are a lot of changes on that sense. Obviously lot of people like me (and perhaps you too) are devolving both roles from years. Saving Changes...