It is widely held and accepted that Agile Principles and Methodoligies are best suited and in most cases preferred for software development projects. For the benefit of those Project Managers without
Andrew TabiMr| NHSKettering, England, United Kingdom
It is widely held and accepted that Agile Principles and Methodoligies are best suited and in most cases preferred for software development projects. For the benefit of those Project Managers without exposure or experience in Agile concepts, please can we kindly have some examples and scenarios of IT Projects that the waterfall approach would be PREFERRED or BEST SUITED over AGILE? I have always wondered what sort of IT contracts I can win with just a PMP qualification. I look forward to receiving your feedback. Thank you so much Saving Changes...
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Justin WortleyProject Manager| Quicken LoansDetroit, Mi, United States
I find waterfall to be more preferable if your requirements are extremely well documented and inflexible. There's no learning curve on any of the technology that may be used/utilized/required. You have excessive resources and don't need to optimize the work flows. Finally, if you know the project is going to be short. Unfortunately, it's very rare where you have these sets of unique circumstances which is why agile is so attractive for software development projects. With that said, PMP isn't a methodology it's a certification based on the PMBOK and the PMBOK does have some agile branches in it, at least the next version will from what I'm told. So you shouldn't think of the PMP as waterfall, your PMP is project management - and project management has a lot of paths that you should look to achieve mastery in.
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1 reply by Andrew Tabi
Sep 12, 2016 3:16 PM
Andrew Tabi
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That's a great input Justin. Thanks a lot. I like what you said about PMP not being a methodology and also pointing out that one can go on specialising in a particular direction. Brilliant!
Saving Changes...
Wade HarshmanScrum Master| GDITIndianapolis, In, United States
Agree with everything you said, Justin.
One of my Agile coaches told me there's nothing wrong with a Waterfall approach, and he actually preferred it when the product was relatively well-understood and simple. That was the first time I realized how counterproductive the "Agile vs Waterfall War" is to project management.
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1 reply by Andrew Tabi
Sep 12, 2016 3:22 PM
Andrew Tabi
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Absolutely Wade - I agree with you. It takes working experience to grasp a proper indepth understanding of the pros and cons of Agile vrs waterfall approaches.
Many thanks for that contribution
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
The first thing to understand is: you have an approach in one side (agile, lean, etc), you have a project life cycle in other side (waterfall, iterative, incremental, etc). So, you can mix the approach with the life cycle as you want. The "easy" way to mix them is by using a method or methodology based on one aproach plus a project life cycle. For example, SCRUM or DSDM just in case of agile. When you have the approach + life cycle then you can see if the convination matches some project management way/best practice/guideline as you wan to name it. For example, PMI style checking the PMBOK. Behind all of this, to make the decision about what you use, you have to understand that anything you use will impact your whole organizational architecture. You can use models like Tom Peter“s Seven S model to evaluate the impacts your decision will take to not fail.
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1 reply by Andrew Tabi
Sep 12, 2016 3:29 PM
Andrew Tabi
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Thanks for your contribution Luis. It is good and helpful to be reminded that one can mix and match different approaches, but keeping in mind the overall impact on the wider organisation or project. That's great.
Saving Changes...
Andrew TabiMr| NHSKettering, England, United Kingdom
Sep 12, 2016 12:25 PM
Replying to Justin Wortley
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I find waterfall to be more preferable if your requirements are extremely well documented and inflexible. There's no learning curve on any of the technology that may be used/utilized/required. You have excessive resources and don't need to optimize the work flows. Finally, if you know the project is going to be short. Unfortunately, it's very rare where you have these sets of unique circumstances which is why agile is so attractive for software development projects. With that said, PMP isn't a methodology it's a certification based on the PMBOK and the PMBOK does have some agile branches in it, at least the next version will from what I'm told. So you shouldn't think of the PMP as waterfall, your PMP is project management - and project management has a lot of paths that you should look to achieve mastery in.
That's a great input Justin. Thanks a lot. I like what you said about PMP not being a methodology and also pointing out that one can go on specialising in a particular direction. Brilliant! Saving Changes...
Andrew TabiMr| NHSKettering, England, United Kingdom
Sep 12, 2016 1:00 PM
Replying to Wade Harshman
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Agree with everything you said, Justin.
One of my Agile coaches told me there's nothing wrong with a Waterfall approach, and he actually preferred it when the product was relatively well-understood and simple. That was the first time I realized how counterproductive the "Agile vs Waterfall War" is to project management.
Absolutely Wade - I agree with you. It takes working experience to grasp a proper indepth understanding of the pros and cons of Agile vrs waterfall approaches.
Many thanks for that contribution Saving Changes...
Andrew TabiMr| NHSKettering, England, United Kingdom
Sep 12, 2016 1:16 PM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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The first thing to understand is: you have an approach in one side (agile, lean, etc), you have a project life cycle in other side (waterfall, iterative, incremental, etc). So, you can mix the approach with the life cycle as you want. The "easy" way to mix them is by using a method or methodology based on one aproach plus a project life cycle. For example, SCRUM or DSDM just in case of agile. When you have the approach + life cycle then you can see if the convination matches some project management way/best practice/guideline as you wan to name it. For example, PMI style checking the PMBOK. Behind all of this, to make the decision about what you use, you have to understand that anything you use will impact your whole organizational architecture. You can use models like Tom Peter“s Seven S model to evaluate the impacts your decision will take to not fail.
Thanks for your contribution Luis. It is good and helpful to be reminded that one can mix and match different approaches, but keeping in mind the overall impact on the wider organisation or project. That's great. Saving Changes...
Scott SaleProgram Manager| KindredLouisville, Ky, United States
If you are looking for scenarios to teach some of the new project managers the difference between Agile (Methodologies) and the PMBoK (framework) with a focus on IT I would think you break this down to the lowest and easiest level to understand.
If we are talking about software Development
SDLC Methods( Waterfall, iterative, Agile)
Example - When you using the waterfall method you could explain it by saying we need a server, next build the database, next add the tables and during the same time you build the GUI with the drops downs that match the table data and so on. This is very simplistic but all the information above is analyzed, designed, implemented and tested(SDLC). Basically what was documented from analysis and design is what was built. That is the waterfall method.
Agile Methods (scrum, kanban, lean etc)
Example - The steps are not planned out to the extent of the waterfall mentioned above. The server is built, the database is setup and tables are built. During the same time the GUI is built. Wait! Yes, We have a direction and analysis is done, but its at a high level. We build the initial GUI and realize we need more drop downs. We then need more tables and there is a need for SOA layer and so on. Agile methods allow us to constantly adjust and improve with an end goal or "vision" in mind from a product standpoint. We now know that in a rapidly changing software industry what we begin with is not what we end with and there is a dynamic aspect.
Now, There is much more to both as we know these are sciences. Both are applicable and I agree with Sergio the Seven S is a solid model. However, If we are describing this examples to our PMs without exposure I don't think the have read the book "in search for excellence" but they should. :) Saving Changes...
George JucanManaging Partner| Organizational Perfomance Enablers NetworkWoodbridge, Ontario, Canada
Let me take it one step further and clarify that there are 2 distinct knowledge domains here: Software Development Life-Cycle and Project Management Methodology. First refers to the activities required to build a software product, the other to managing the people engaged in delivering a project. A competent project manger can run efficiently a software project following any life-cycle method - because we are managing people, not writing code!
Justin mentioned that PBMOK Guide has some references to agile principles and methods, between others, and for good reasons - the project management best practices described in PMBOK Guide apply the same regardless of the technical characteristics of the project (and to me that includes the life-cycle used for developing code): the PM still has to manage risks, engage stakeholders, define scope etc - it's just the frequency of these activities that changes, but not the project management fundamentals. Saving Changes...
Christopher UnroeFounder & Principal Consultant (RET)| uprojx, LLCLittleton, Co, United States
I center on waterfall and iterative waterfall for complex IT infrastructure projects, commercial services transitions, M&A's and more. Have no issue with a blended approach either, waterfall under-pinned with select Agile principles. We're in the process currently of defining a custom at-speed hybrid methodology we've internally branded 'RaPiD' based on a simplified Requirements -- Plan -- Deploy concept. Looking forward to it "being on-the-shelf" for use as we launch our 2017 portfolio for those projects that qualify.
As an aside, in my environment, I also prefer rigid waterfall for certain business owners and sponsors that always require that extra level of 'care and feeding' to keep them between the lines. Saving Changes...