Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
As most of you, I get notifications for "project manager" open positions on online job boards.
Does anyone else feel that the title Project Manager is used for positions where the requirements are totally wrong?
Here is an example that I saw this morning.
"As the ideal candidate you possess 5+ years of project management experience coupled with an Engineering degree or CET diploma plus equivalent experience. You have worked in the material processing industry (food manufacturing or stainless equipment fabrication experience would be preferred) and have been involved in designing and/or installing material handling equipment. " Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Dec 17, 2016 6:29 AM
Replying to Adrian Carlogea
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I know we had this discussion before and my opinion was in disagreement with many other users however I am saying it again, a PM that is not also an experienced SME can't fully manage a project but instead he/she will just be some sort of facilitator or coordinator.
A PM that is not also a subject matter expert will not be able to take many crucial decisions that will impact the success of the project. I have seen this happen many times, projects that didn't deliver in time because the decisions taken by the technical team turned out not to be so good, and the PM was unable to do anything about them since he didn't understand them at all.
I don't want to offend anyone, I am not saying that the work of PMs that are not also SMEs is useless all I am saying is that such PMs are not fully in control of their projects. Many wrong things can happen during the execution of the project without the so called non-technical PM to even be aware of. Even if the SMEs explain to the PM what's wrong he may not understand the problems and the SMEs may not be capable or willing to solve them.
The SMEs may explain the problems to the PM in a very technical language that can't be understood by him/her.
I fully understand the need of some companies to hire PMs that are also good SMEs, this makes perfect sense for me. Even if the PM is not expected to provide technical leadership or do the work himself if he is not a SME he may not be able to understand what the team members are telling him.
Adrian: I spend my time here to learn from all comments and to improve myself. And I learn a lot when reading your comments. As you know we disagree and let me say this: you, as Project manager, must be a subject matter expert in the field to take decisión about Project mangement. But you, as Project manager, must not take any other type of decisions. In fact, is the worst thing you can do. Your duty as Project manager is to assure the definition and following of a change process where you and your team are accountable and responsable to créate all the information related to evaluate the impacts and to present it to people that must take the decisión. And believe me, companies that hire Project managers that are subject matter experts are searching for the last one. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Dec 15, 2016 11:41 AM
Replying to LORI WILSON
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I see these ads too. I often get asked "what does a project manager do?", "what does that mean?"...and within my own industry there is often confusion between the role of a Project Manager and a Business Analyst. There are Business Analysts in the healthcare industry who can manage projects for hospitals - which is what I do as a Project Manager. I have a little elevator speech ready when these questions come up - I try to explain that we have a lot of positive energy, experience, training and skills that align with our corporate strategies to help us manage projects from the beginning stage of imagining the project to the end stages well after the deliverable has successfully completed - I try to add insight about lessons learned and project knowledge sharing with other PM's. I talk about our certifications, etc. Our Benefits Realization documents at the end of each project are another way I try to reinforce the important PM role. But there still remains much confusion about project management. It takes all of us continually helping others understand our PM role and realizing the benefits, responsibilities and importance of it.
I am working from the "génesis" of business analysis role with the IIBA and now with the PMI. There is a lot of work to help people to undestand the hugh difference between both roles mainly in the focus. I hope with the new guide about business analysis that the PMI will publish in 2017 all the missunderstanding wil be clarified. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Dec 15, 2016 10:43 AM
Replying to Mayte Mata Sivera
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Completely agree. As I'm looking for a new IT project, sometimes in internet job boards using the filter project manager, I'm finding from Sales Rep, account manager, to developers with managerial skills.
This is a common point in ERP implementations like SAP. The Project managers are usually the functional leader that belongs to the function where SAP will be implemented (finance for example). If you ask me, the place where we need to search why this things happend is inside the Project manager community itself. You can read things like "PMI methodology" outside there or if you as to people, including those that earn the PMP certification, what is a Project manager you will surprise. Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Dec 17, 2016 6:29 AM
Replying to Adrian Carlogea
...
I know we had this discussion before and my opinion was in disagreement with many other users however I am saying it again, a PM that is not also an experienced SME can't fully manage a project but instead he/she will just be some sort of facilitator or coordinator.
A PM that is not also a subject matter expert will not be able to take many crucial decisions that will impact the success of the project. I have seen this happen many times, projects that didn't deliver in time because the decisions taken by the technical team turned out not to be so good, and the PM was unable to do anything about them since he didn't understand them at all.
I don't want to offend anyone, I am not saying that the work of PMs that are not also SMEs is useless all I am saying is that such PMs are not fully in control of their projects. Many wrong things can happen during the execution of the project without the so called non-technical PM to even be aware of. Even if the SMEs explain to the PM what's wrong he may not understand the problems and the SMEs may not be capable or willing to solve them.
The SMEs may explain the problems to the PM in a very technical language that can't be understood by him/her.
I fully understand the need of some companies to hire PMs that are also good SMEs, this makes perfect sense for me. Even if the PM is not expected to provide technical leadership or do the work himself if he is not a SME he may not be able to understand what the team members are telling him.
While I won't dispute that some technical background can help the PM frame information and decisions, I don't see myself as a SME, Adrian.
If I have not obtained the best technical decision from my project team, then I have failed as a facilitator and communicator.
My job is to do what is best for the project, not the product. Saving Changes...
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
I personally agree with Adrian and many of our fellow colleagues might know my opinion in this regards. Now, this might not apply to all industries but definitely in Construction, you can never manage a project successfully as a PM if you're not very well experienced in this field and have very good technical knowledge. Saving Changes...
Philippe SchulerSenior Instructor/Lecturer in Project/Program/Account PMO Management| Independant ConsultantLes Choux, France
Dec 17, 2016 6:29 AM
Replying to Adrian Carlogea
...
I know we had this discussion before and my opinion was in disagreement with many other users however I am saying it again, a PM that is not also an experienced SME can't fully manage a project but instead he/she will just be some sort of facilitator or coordinator.
A PM that is not also a subject matter expert will not be able to take many crucial decisions that will impact the success of the project. I have seen this happen many times, projects that didn't deliver in time because the decisions taken by the technical team turned out not to be so good, and the PM was unable to do anything about them since he didn't understand them at all.
I don't want to offend anyone, I am not saying that the work of PMs that are not also SMEs is useless all I am saying is that such PMs are not fully in control of their projects. Many wrong things can happen during the execution of the project without the so called non-technical PM to even be aware of. Even if the SMEs explain to the PM what's wrong he may not understand the problems and the SMEs may not be capable or willing to solve them.
The SMEs may explain the problems to the PM in a very technical language that can't be understood by him/her.
I fully understand the need of some companies to hire PMs that are also good SMEs, this makes perfect sense for me. Even if the PM is not expected to provide technical leadership or do the work himself if he is not a SME he may not be able to understand what the team members are telling him.
Adrian, I can understand your point of view. But a Project Manager is a Manager not a SME. The key point for me is Pms must have some experience in the domain they have to manage for. They should delete their SME behaviors but they must be iable to challenge the SMEs part of their teams. PM and SME roles are fully disconnected. A PM that rect as a SME can loose any credibility with his/her ability to manage the project successfully. Both roles must be respected but are not compatible.
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1 reply by Adrian Carlogea
Dec 18, 2016 5:22 AM
Adrian Carlogea
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Thank you very much for your reply Philippe.
Maybe I am wrong but I believe that the technical aspects of a project or of any other activity must be managed as well. Am I wrong?
If I am not wrong then it means that the PM who is not also a SME will not be able to manage some crucial aspects of the project. These aspects are going to be managed by the designated project technical leads, who are SMEs, or by functional (technical) managers who are also SMEs promoted to management.
But even if you don't expect the PM to manage the technical aspects of a project if he is not a SME he may have difficulties communicating with the team as the team may only talk in technical language. I read the blog of a female software development PM who was not a developer and she explained how she had to learn a lot of technical terms in order for her to be able to communicate with the team.
Depending on the industry PMs who are not also SMEs may successfully manage projects but they will be working in a weak matrix environment meaning that many crucial decisions that would impact the outcome of the project will be taken by other people upon which the PMs have no control. If those people take wrong decisions the project may fail despite the fact that the PM has done a very good job on the project management part.
Saving Changes...
Ed Tsyitee JrConsultant | Consultant Tucson, Az, United States
This is how I got into Project Management. After I graduated with a Masters in HR Management, I noticed a lot of "entry level" jobs that required project management skills. That could have meant anything. So, I went back to school and earned a Masters in Project Management. The main problem is that the terms project manager and project management are not tracked as a separate career field by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, so they get lumped in with every thing that requires manager. Thankfully, in 2017, the BLS will start tracking project manager as a separate career field, with the distinct skills needed. I hope it alleviates that problem.
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1 reply by Stéphane Parent
Dec 17, 2016 6:05 PM
Stéphane Parent
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I think that's a great start, Ed. Especially in light of the news of the signing of the Program Management Improvement and Accountability Act.
Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Dec 17, 2016 5:34 PM
Replying to Ed Tsyitee Jr
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This is how I got into Project Management. After I graduated with a Masters in HR Management, I noticed a lot of "entry level" jobs that required project management skills. That could have meant anything. So, I went back to school and earned a Masters in Project Management. The main problem is that the terms project manager and project management are not tracked as a separate career field by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, so they get lumped in with every thing that requires manager. Thankfully, in 2017, the BLS will start tracking project manager as a separate career field, with the distinct skills needed. I hope it alleviates that problem.
I think that's a great start, Ed. Especially in light of the news of the signing of the Program Management Improvement and Accountability Act. Saving Changes...
Adrian, I can understand your point of view. But a Project Manager is a Manager not a SME. The key point for me is Pms must have some experience in the domain they have to manage for. They should delete their SME behaviors but they must be iable to challenge the SMEs part of their teams. PM and SME roles are fully disconnected. A PM that rect as a SME can loose any credibility with his/her ability to manage the project successfully. Both roles must be respected but are not compatible.
Thank you very much for your reply Philippe.
Maybe I am wrong but I believe that the technical aspects of a project or of any other activity must be managed as well. Am I wrong?
If I am not wrong then it means that the PM who is not also a SME will not be able to manage some crucial aspects of the project. These aspects are going to be managed by the designated project technical leads, who are SMEs, or by functional (technical) managers who are also SMEs promoted to management.
But even if you don't expect the PM to manage the technical aspects of a project if he is not a SME he may have difficulties communicating with the team as the team may only talk in technical language. I read the blog of a female software development PM who was not a developer and she explained how she had to learn a lot of technical terms in order for her to be able to communicate with the team.
Depending on the industry PMs who are not also SMEs may successfully manage projects but they will be working in a weak matrix environment meaning that many crucial decisions that would impact the outcome of the project will be taken by other people upon which the PMs have no control. If those people take wrong decisions the project may fail despite the fact that the PM has done a very good job on the project management part.
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3 replies by Philippe Schuler, Sergio Luis Conte, and Stéphane Parent
Dec 18, 2016 7:16 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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That is the point Adrian: a project manager MUST have knowledge but it MUST not be a subject matter expert (sorry, I use must to emphatyze). First of all, the project manager is on charge of work needed to create the product no more than that. All about product definition is out of project management scope. Second, what most of the project managers forget is a critical activity they must perform before a project exists: elicitation. The project manager must take knowledge about the domain she/he will work (terms, entities, process, etc), the key stakeholders inside that domain (CIO, CFO, etc), the needs key stakeholders have inside the domain and the environment (external and internal) where other organizations perform. That is critical and it is forgotten. BUT at least is a matter of career selection in my opinion. I do not want to be a subject matter expert in a domain (no matter I have a PH D in Software Engineering and I make research on the field) because this will narrow my market. That is because after obtain my PH D (and before that I earned a master degree in artificial intelligence) I studied an obtained a MBA to understand better the organizations problems and to work in multiple projects in multiple domains (Goverment, Finance, Banking, Health, Retail, Construction, etc). But this was my strategy. And each one has to have one.
Dec 18, 2016 10:26 AM
Stéphane Parent
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Do you really believe that the project manager can make better decisions than the technical team?
Dec 19, 2016 12:15 PM
Philippe Schuler
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Adrian. You are right. Technical aspects of a project must be managed as well as the other aspects. But the as usual in project management there is no black or white answers. First of all, when someone moves from SME to PM job, it is necessary to change all former behaviors. Then it is necessary to consider the scope of a project. If we have to manage a pure technical project, it is mandatory for the PM to have a deep knowledge of the technical domain but he/she must focus on managing rather than to try to be "more expert" than the experts that could work on the same project. a technical PM manages but must not be involved in coding (for example). When the project scope is very large then it is mandatory (or at least strongly recommended) that the PM has a good knowledge of the domain. It is necessary for the PM to organize, to lead and to challenge a technical teal. So either there is a technical sub-project manager to guarantee the correctness of the technical solution or the PM must be able to use/understand a common language to get technicians in line.
But in any case, for me a PM must not behave as a SME to keep full management credibility with the team.
I had this discussion with peers many time and I have to recognize it is difficult to agree on a satisfying answer!
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Dec 18, 2016 5:22 AM
Replying to Adrian Carlogea
...
Thank you very much for your reply Philippe.
Maybe I am wrong but I believe that the technical aspects of a project or of any other activity must be managed as well. Am I wrong?
If I am not wrong then it means that the PM who is not also a SME will not be able to manage some crucial aspects of the project. These aspects are going to be managed by the designated project technical leads, who are SMEs, or by functional (technical) managers who are also SMEs promoted to management.
But even if you don't expect the PM to manage the technical aspects of a project if he is not a SME he may have difficulties communicating with the team as the team may only talk in technical language. I read the blog of a female software development PM who was not a developer and she explained how she had to learn a lot of technical terms in order for her to be able to communicate with the team.
Depending on the industry PMs who are not also SMEs may successfully manage projects but they will be working in a weak matrix environment meaning that many crucial decisions that would impact the outcome of the project will be taken by other people upon which the PMs have no control. If those people take wrong decisions the project may fail despite the fact that the PM has done a very good job on the project management part.
That is the point Adrian: a project manager MUST have knowledge but it MUST not be a subject matter expert (sorry, I use must to emphatyze). First of all, the project manager is on charge of work needed to create the product no more than that. All about product definition is out of project management scope. Second, what most of the project managers forget is a critical activity they must perform before a project exists: elicitation. The project manager must take knowledge about the domain she/he will work (terms, entities, process, etc), the key stakeholders inside that domain (CIO, CFO, etc), the needs key stakeholders have inside the domain and the environment (external and internal) where other organizations perform. That is critical and it is forgotten. BUT at least is a matter of career selection in my opinion. I do not want to be a subject matter expert in a domain (no matter I have a PH D in Software Engineering and I make research on the field) because this will narrow my market. That is because after obtain my PH D (and before that I earned a master degree in artificial intelligence) I studied an obtained a MBA to understand better the organizations problems and to work in multiple projects in multiple domains (Goverment, Finance, Banking, Health, Retail, Construction, etc). But this was my strategy. And each one has to have one. Saving Changes...
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