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Would you hire a Paper PMP?

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John Rice Sustainment Engineer| Lockheed Martin Harmony, Fl, United States
Last week I read a post on Linkedin from a very experienced PM and one of the founders of the PMP. He clearly stated he dislikes what he calls a Paper PMP, meaning someone who has little experience, studied for the exam, met the criteria and passed the exam. His approached was PMI de-valued the credential, and these so-called PMP are diluting project management. Some PMP-holders who have no business running a project. They’ve passed the PMI’s test (which isn’t difficult for an experienced PM), and handed in application forms that were so light on detail they should have been flagged by the most perfunctory of glances.

I’m interested in what you think about the PMP. Does it continue to have value? Is the PMI doing a good enough job ensuring credential holders deserve the PMP? Is the industry watered down with too many PMP holders who can’t run a project? Or is the PMP an excellent credential that should give hiring managers confidence in their new hire?

Is, does experience trump credential? I say of course. Remember one of the criteria for PMP is 4,500 to 7,500 hours or 2½ to 4 years of directing projects. Agreed, it is not massive years of experience, but PMI believes the experience level is appropriate for the credential. Experience equates resolved mistakes and challenges, and nothing can replace it. However, no employer is willing to invest in errors and error, too costly. The age old dilemma comes in again, how can someone obtain experience, if no one is prepared to spend the effort to the person?

Would you hire a Paper PMP? Someone who has the credential but not the experience. The PMP credential does signify knowledge and core competencies. I venture to say, someone who dismisses an applicant for lack of experience is not willing to invest.
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Omar Santos Engineering Technician| Village of Hanover Park Elgin, Il, United States
Based on the premise at the beginning of your writing, "from a very experienced PM and one of the founders of the PMP. He clearly stated he dislikes what he calls a Paper PMP, meaning someone who has little experience", I was shocked that an original participant of creating the PMP feels that way since he created it that way.

My two cents. In order to sit for the exam one must have some experience (PMI has the right/duty to check on it). I just passed the test last year in my first try, and the practical experience questions were abundant (meaning without experience probably I have failed the test).

If having minimum experience makes one a bad PM, then nobody without experience would be ever hired at all in any field.

Education/certification only means you have acquired certain knowledge and an organization is behind it; like any university providing a diploma. How many newly Licensed Professional Engineers are ready to take full charge of a project? Only the ones with experience; what I mean is in every profession there is a difference between having credentials and having experience. As mentioned by others, a PM will be hired to fulfill the specific position requirements. As we all know, if someone vouches for you, your chances of getting a job increases. The PMP by PMI is a document that vouches for you; afterward, one has to show/prove what one can do.
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1 reply by John Rice
Mar 22, 2017 11:33 PM
John Rice
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Thank you, Omar
Your comment is very insight. What I am reading from you, is like the Doctor's program, where after graduating with their Doctorate degree, they still have 5-year residency to complete to gain and overseen experience.
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Mayte Mata Sivera PMO Leader | Speaker | Author Ut, United States
I'm interested in this topic, could you share the full article?
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1 reply by John Rice
Mar 22, 2017 11:34 PM
John Rice
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Mayte,
I will try to find the original post
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Diego Ferrer Managing Principal| Quant16 Chicago, Il, United States
The dilemma is how do you make the distinction between a "true" PMP and a "paper" PMP?

If you're referring to the value of the certification I would say that If I have two candidates with similar years of experience I would choose the one with the PMP certification over the one with no certification.
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2 replies by John Rice and Mayte Mata Sivera
Mar 22, 2017 2:50 PM
Mayte Mata Sivera
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Make a distinction is easy, in a face to face interview, not with your human resource department, PM in front PM, asking about risks, stakeholder engagement, communications management...real situations. 3 questions, 5 minutes and you'll resolve the dilemma.
Mar 22, 2017 11:44 PM
John Rice
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Noted - each HRD has a filtering process in placed then you are faced with few selected prospects which Mayte method could solve.
However, there is a trick to fool the systematic filtering, to get your resume in front a breathing person.
Copy/paste the duties/responsibilities of the job posting to the end of your resume. Change the font to size 2, color white. Save in PDF.
The HRD computer filter will pick up on the keywords in your resume, therefore, selecting your application for the next step into process.
Is not fool proof and some may consider it cheating, the idea is to get your resume in front the human factor.
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Mayte Mata Sivera PMO Leader | Speaker | Author Ut, United States
Mar 22, 2017 2:47 PM
Replying to Diego Ferrer
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The dilemma is how do you make the distinction between a "true" PMP and a "paper" PMP?

If you're referring to the value of the certification I would say that If I have two candidates with similar years of experience I would choose the one with the PMP certification over the one with no certification.
Make a distinction is easy, in a face to face interview, not with your human resource department, PM in front PM, asking about risks, stakeholder engagement, communications management...real situations. 3 questions, 5 minutes and you'll resolve the dilemma.
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1 reply by John Rice
Mar 22, 2017 11:47 PM
John Rice
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Mayte,
you ask scenario based questions? it works if the interviewer thinks through their own scoring criteria, what is an acceptable answer and what is not.
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John Rice Sustainment Engineer| Lockheed Martin Harmony, Fl, United States
Mar 22, 2017 12:32 AM
Replying to Deepesh Rammoorthy
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First of All , A Project Manager who works in the field may not use a lot of the concepts or delve into the depths that PMBOK guide does.
Most Project Managers may not be in control of Budgets or Procurement and the money may be managed by either a Finance/Procurement Person or someone very higher up in the pecking order and the PM might just be brought in to perform delivery.
It is therefore valuable that PMP equips Project Managers with an insight into procurement and finance.
The PMBOK also does not go into great depths regarding Emotional Intelligence and Soft Skills which are the main assets of a Project Manager when it comes to communication and Stakeholder management. These skills are acquired in the field through years of experience.
And therefore it makes sense that Project Managers after few years of experience pick up the concepts and are able to apply them in their daily work.

How does one judge a Paper PM in a 45 minute interview? asking them about the projects they have managed and judging if they have used PM-isms taught in the PMP.

Experience doesn't trump credentials but is supplemented well by the credential in my opinion

Also , I think going through the PMP exam preparation has helped me better do my job and apply the PMisms.

And I don't think the questions are that straight forward in PMP and you really have to apply the concepts rather than pass the exam by reading the books
Deepesh,

Thank you for your insightful input.
Your right about PMBOK also does not go into great depths regarding Emotional Intelligence and Soft Skills, but it isn't and can't go in depth. EI and Soft Skills are learned and acquired by focusing on relationships.
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John Rice Sustainment Engineer| Lockheed Martin Harmony, Fl, United States
Mar 22, 2017 6:54 AM
Replying to Mark Eckman
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I cannot speak for all project managers, but for myself I can say that the PMP credential was the next logical piece of the "accidental project manager" career path and it definitely followed gaining hands-on experience as a project manager first. Passing the PMP exam was validation that my experience was on target and I was moving in the right direction.

I agree with Deepesh completely that the credential requires experience as part of the pre-requisites to sit for the exam and that experience is supplemented by credential attainment.

Given a choice of the PMP credential or having hands-on experience managing projects, I certainly would take the latter, but I have gained a sense of completeness by earning the PMP credential. It has absolutely enabled me to fill in some of my knowledge gaps as well as giving me some practical tools that help me in better managing my projects.

Thanks for posting this great question, John.
Thank you, Mark.
I too gained a sense of completeness by earning the PMP credential. Most job postings expect 3-7 years experience and new practitioners barely fit the criteria.
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John Rice Sustainment Engineer| Lockheed Martin Harmony, Fl, United States
Mar 22, 2017 6:56 AM
Replying to Drew Craig
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John, sometimes individuals are simply negative, and see things as binary. Nothing is devalued, there is no conspiracy theory. And like you said, there is a rather stringent vetting process prior to taking the exam.

Actually, it can be viewed not as a 'paper PM' but as someone who stretches themselves and takes the initiative to better themselves, showing dedication and respect to the craft. Additionally, maybe while the individual is in a bad place in their professional life - searching for a career change or trying to bounce back from a job loss. Is that not the kind of person you want?

I would not be surprised to see his interview techniques prejudice, purposely asking questions to trip up a candidate he sees as being a 'paper' PM.

Frankly, I don't give individuals like that much credence.
Andrew thank you for your support.

I posted the question from my experiences.

My current employment is my third one; I have 20 years in the US military, 5 five years with Sprint, and now seven years managing curriculum projects. This job is my first contracting job, and I was told to keep looking for your next job. Therefore, I looked for something that would make me more marketable. Because we are in the project management business, I saw the PMP as a coveted goal. I studied and earned my Masters in PM and applied the PMP processes to the small projects I was responsible for the experience.

In 2016 I became PMP certified, but it was a struggle. PMI designed the exam for the experienced PM who manage a project with 200+ people. I failed my first attempt because of the deficiency in my experience level. To overcome my faults, I not only memorize the processes I built a relationship with them and what I currently do. So yes I am PMP, even though I have not yet managed a large scale project.
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John Rice Sustainment Engineer| Lockheed Martin Harmony, Fl, United States
Mar 22, 2017 7:54 AM
Replying to Eric Simms
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I think the problem is that some people view the PMP as a guarantee that a person can perform a project successfully, and liken the PMP certification exam to a Plumber’s certification exam. When I hire a certified Plumber, I know s/he will weld my pipes correctly because Plumber exams are practical; they must weld pipes and have their welds pass examiners’ scrutiny. In contrast, the PMP exam is conceptual. It demonstrates that a person understands certain basic project management concepts, but doesn’t prove s/he can manage a project well. The ability to do that can only come through experience.
So, to answer the question I’d hire a paper PMP according to the level of his/her experience, which I can only ascertain by asking detailed questions about previous projects.
Eric,
I relate to your first statement... when I passed PMP, I was on a high; thinking I could conquer the world. Your second statement is the reality. You can not excel in something if you were not exposed to its challenges.
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John Rice Sustainment Engineer| Lockheed Martin Harmony, Fl, United States
Mar 22, 2017 10:30 AM
Replying to Aaron Porter
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What position are you hiring this person for? I would not hire a newly certified PMP, with the minimum experience required to apply for the exam, for a senior project manager position. Unless this person falsified information on their PMP application, which I have no way to know, my assumption is that this person has some experience, which should be reflected on the resume, and enough understanding of PM Principles to pass the exam. This can be vetted during the interview, to some extent.

Would I hire this person over an experienced PM who does not have a PMP? It depends on the experience, the position, and how the interview goes. Of course, a bigger factor is whether or not the resume of the PM without a PMP made it past the HR screening - I might not even see the more experienced PMs resume, therefore, no interview. That's an entirely different discussion.
Aaron,

It really comes down to experience, the position, and how the interview goes. Can the candidate handle the perceived challenges?
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John Rice Sustainment Engineer| Lockheed Martin Harmony, Fl, United States
Mar 22, 2017 11:06 AM
Replying to SUNNY HELWANDE
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I too agree with andrew.
I personally feel its all about right opportunities and how well someone grab those opportunities.
Its not about how many years of experience one have, its about how well one have applied the project management principles for whatever period in worked i projects.
Sunny,
I support you because I will the opportunities presented if the doors open to me. It is just getting into the door.
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