Mark Price PerryBusiness Driven PMO Evangelist| BOT InternationalOrlando, Fl, United States
Dear Andy, I agree with you. While most of our customers encourage and support the PMP as a professional credential for their organization (IT department), there is quite a bit of feedback indicating that the PMP is too PMBOK centric as a book test and not relevant enough as a measure or credential for the actual practice of project management taking into consideration a wide variety of other factors surrounding project management. I like your idea of industry specific certification. I have also heard quite a bit of feedback suggesting that compliance requirements such as Sarbanes-Oxley and EVMS ANSI/EIA 748 should be part of any PMP certification. Perhaps this is a PMBOK issue more than a PMP issue. I am anxious to hear from others on this and just posted a topic requesting feedback. Best regards. Mark Saving Changes...
Mark and Andy, PMI tried industry specific certifications about 2 years ago and very few folks signed up, so it was dropped. The test is very much PMBOK centric, but the cert (not the methodology) is worth it, IMHO, and more importantly, is well recognized and supported by corporations, government agencies, and major authors and decision makers in the project management field. Andy, when you start looking for your next gig the 1st question you'll be asked is "are you PMP certified?". A YES answer means you proceed to the next step, a NO answer means your resume goes into the trash can, regardless of your background. That's the way the system works in the USA. Saving Changes...
Tom its a pity that the world views bits of paper more valuable than experience gained in the working environment. Yes we should have a structure in which to follow but I don’t agree that you should be employed because you have passed a PMP exam.
Mark You made several references to PMBOK I have just come off the Amzon site they have a guide to the project management body of knowledge PMBOK guides 3rd edition can you recommend this as a good book to get?
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Since my last post I have actually obtained my PMP and conducted a successful job search. I can say without a doubt, that my PMP certification did not get me my current position. The group I'm working with was interested in my past performance in similar projects with similar challenges. They were interested in my performance conducting a project turn around, ability to evaluate software skill sets, support proper software engineering methodologies, and keep team members focused and on task.
The PMP does not prepare you well for any of these challenges. I have not found any project or technical development methodology that does.
I have long believed that the PMP certification does not show capability or predict future performance. However, I still consider the PMP a “worth it investment.” The knowledge required to obtain the certification creates amongst its practitioners a common language for the discussion of project management issues. In addition, as I expected, it sometimes impresses the non-project management geeks who are trying to find that rare and unique PM who can actually run a project.
I find the Guide to the PMBOK lacking. I can’t find within its limited scope any actionable information. There are only brief descriptions of processes and deliverables. I assume that the methods, and constraints of creating a single small book that is a road map to project management by its nature can only create high-level information. As a PMP I believe that it is my responsibility to find literature, tools, methodologies, and processes from which to execute my projects. The PMI materials are not adequate to achieve this.
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Anonymous
Certifications, like degrees are only as good as the person holding them, I don't beleive either one can be used as a guage to determine what kinds of results you will get. Ultimately it comes down to the human factor. From what I have seen from PMI, the test lacks substance and deals with assumption. Holding this certification doesn't tell me if the holder truly has great communicative, management or organizational skills. It simply tells me, they took and passed a test. Professionally, it is probably a great thing to have on a resume, but it has limited real world functionality. Saving Changes...
*Use the PMBOK bricks to build your own home*
Let's get to brasstacks. As long as projects continue to be unique, it is unrealistic to expect a globally accepted 'universal' 'one size fits all' PM approach.
The PMBOK and PMP are not, neither do they claim to be, such 'universal adaptors'. The PMBOK is essentially a unifying approach to project management, and provides a common baseline in terms of how one engages in the practice of project management. Again, it is neither intended to, nor purports to address 'soft skills'. We cannot fault the PMI for not addressing what is 'out of scope' ab initio.
So, I would say, consider the PMBOK guidelines to be building blocks, and use/reuse them to meet your unique needs.
The PMP certification is a testament to the commitment one is willing to make to beef up on substantive Project Management discipline.
sN, PMP Saving Changes...
Anonymous
In my opinion, the whole certification process is a money maker for the certifying bodies. To get an MS certification, you generally need to take a cla$$, pay for the te$t that they developed, at a $anctioned te$t $ite. With that you get a button that signals you jumped through the correct hoops to attain that button. After enough of these are completed. You get a title. Unfortunately, this title does not guarantee you employment, but you should know something. With PMI, it's pretty much the same deal. However, you can self-study all of the material to get yourself ready to take the PMP test. Submit the voluminous paper required to be blessed in order to sit for their exam, and get accepted. Take the exam at a $anctioned $ite and if you have studied hard enough, pass the exam. Unfortunately, this title does not guarantee you employment, and you don't have know anything. Well, I know that is pretty harsh, but when I started the PMP quest some 8 years ago, the people who were taking the PMP courses in our organization, had time on their hands because nobody would call upon them, because they were not the kind of folks that you would bring to a critical situation. To be real frank, they were the folks that were classified as "surplus" and sent packing. I completed mine several years later.
So there is a whole culture of "certified" folks out here who can't perform real world tasks, but they look terrific on paper.
I'll renew my PMP because it's on my resume. Saving Changes...
I would agree that being able to obtain the PMP certification alone does not guarantee mastery of the skills necessary to manage a successful project to completion. It does, however, make a good standard starting point for ensuring that a PM candidate has more than a passing acquaintence with PM process areas. For organizations where standardization and portability of personell are important, the PMP certified candidate is a real plus.
I have applied myself to qualifying for both the PMI's PMP and the Software Engineering Institute SCAMPI cert (which I will be working toward for a while). As far as requirements to sit for an exam go, the PMP is reasonable, while SCAMPI is pretty extreme. One huge difference is that after you are SCAMPI certified, you are essentially employed by SEI and already have a whole career's worth of uncertified experience under your belt. As a PMP you will have some experience, some knowledge and need to go out and get your own job(s).
In the end, the PMP cert has opened some doors for me that would otherwise have remained closed. For anyone who wants to get seriously involved with process oriented Project Management, the PMP is a good thing to have, but you will still need to prove that you can apply your knowledge and experience to a potential employer. Saving Changes...
Date: Saturday, July 22, 2006 (10:30am - 5:30pm) Location: New Yorker Hotel, 481 Eighth Ave., New York City Instructor: Jerry Bucknoff, PMP, MBA
Price: $99 - plus $10 registration fee (waived for NYPC members)
This is the third time we are offering this class for Project Managers and others who are interested in learning about the Guide to the PMBOK® and about PMP certification.
NYPC is the largest computer user group in NYC, and one of the oldest and largest computer user groups in America. We are a 501(C)3 non-profit corporation, run by volunteers since 1981. We are volunteer-run and serve the NY Metro area.
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Manish Kumar SinghSoftware Development Specialist| AmdocsPune, Maharashtra, India
i will go with Sandra Rago comment.... Saving Changes...
