George LewisProgram/Project Manager| DXC Technology CompanyHeredia, Costa Rica
If project managers are responsible for delivering the solution to a problem and Business analysts are responsible for discovering the problem and determining the solution; this has to be reflected in the BABOK and/or PMBOK that's all my comment is..
To me, it is clear... This does not mean the solution is simple, but the issue is clear...
John TiesoAuthor, Lecturer in Business Management| The Catholic University of America, Busch School of Business & EconomicsArlington, Va, United States
Apr 12, 2017 9:02 AM
Replying to George Lewis
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John - interesting comment.
That's also another view, where the PM should be part of the BA effort.
It is clear that there is a GAP, and this is one of the reasons projects "sometimes" fails...
Very interesting discussion...
George: I agree, once the PM is appointed, it is his/her responsibility to carry the BA effort forward to a reasonable level of decomposition which makes fashioning a solution possible. In too many instances, the initial BA is insufficient in granularity or clarity to really do work based on it, and the team needs to massage it further to get that clarity. Saving Changes...
Bill MorganProject Manager| Epic Management L.P. Redlands, CAMoreno Valley, Ca, United States
Gaps can be filled with collaboration.
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3 replies by Bill Morgan, John Tieso, and Sergio Luis Conte
Apr 12, 2017 4:12 PM
John Tieso
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Bill: That is absolutely true. Think about your last few teams--were they collaborative in general, or were they task oriented based on their specific duties. How do we develop truly collaborative teams that care about closing gaps, or even identifying them so that the team can create a solution?
Apr 13, 2017 7:20 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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That is because, if people read the actual PMI`s Practice Guide for Business Analyst, people will find "Collaboration Points" (that is the name) into it to understand how both roles interact. Totally agree Bill.
Apr 15, 2017 11:48 AM
Bill Morgan
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How can I start a project without a Business Justification or a SOW. The business operations needs to produce these deliverables either with the PMO or an internal business analyst.
Saving Changes...
John TiesoAuthor, Lecturer in Business Management| The Catholic University of America, Busch School of Business & EconomicsArlington, Va, United States
Apr 12, 2017 4:09 PM
Replying to Bill Morgan
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Gaps can be filled with collaboration.
Bill: That is absolutely true. Think about your last few teams--were they collaborative in general, or were they task oriented based on their specific duties. How do we develop truly collaborative teams that care about closing gaps, or even identifying them so that the team can create a solution? Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
First of all, the best way to answer this question is to take a look to the actual Practice Guide for Buisnes Analysis. Next, the PMI will publish the new PMBOK and the Standard for Buisness Analysis. But today the link exists. There is no GAP. The point is that after this year two different organizations have been working in both roles: the IIBA for business analysis and the PMI for project management. People who work as business analyst and followed the BABOK know about that. As you know, a business case document is needed as an input for the Initiation process. The business analyst is the role that create the business case. So, that is the link.
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1 reply by George Lewis
Apr 13, 2017 12:28 AM
George Lewis
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Sergio - we do know you knowledge on the subject, and respect it... Yet... there is more to the subject than that simple link. Meaning you're right but not totally right...
This discussion is very interesting indeed...
Saving Changes...
George LewisProgram/Project Manager| DXC Technology CompanyHeredia, Costa Rica
Apr 12, 2017 9:22 PM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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First of all, the best way to answer this question is to take a look to the actual Practice Guide for Buisnes Analysis. Next, the PMI will publish the new PMBOK and the Standard for Buisness Analysis. But today the link exists. There is no GAP. The point is that after this year two different organizations have been working in both roles: the IIBA for business analysis and the PMI for project management. People who work as business analyst and followed the BABOK know about that. As you know, a business case document is needed as an input for the Initiation process. The business analyst is the role that create the business case. So, that is the link.
Sergio - we do know you knowledge on the subject, and respect it... Yet... there is more to the subject than that simple link. Meaning you're right but not totally right...
This discussion is very interesting indeed... Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Is not about I am right or not. It does not matter. Is about your question and things some people wrote above. BOTH practices are linked from the very begining. I was part of the group that created the business analysis standards for the organization that started the role definition: the IIBA. You asked a question and I answered you by writting the references people can search and read to understand that there was a link from the very begining. From this year everything will be easy if you follow the PMI way because both roles have been integrated for the same organization. There is NO GAP. Hope people understand that to take advantage of both roles. I have no problem in explaining what people need to understand. In fact, I have performed conferences around the worlk to explain that inside the PMI World Tour from years. But now it is not needed. The documentaion is in one place: the PMI site. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Apr 11, 2017 1:35 PM
Replying to Denise Canty
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George, I think I agree with you. There is a gap. Perhaps the 6th version of the PMBOK will take care of this?
Denise, there is no gap. Perhaps that is your perception because before the last year two different organizations worked on roles definition: the IIBA for business analysis and the PMI for project management. Both organizations take into account each other to create the BABOK and the PMBOK. Now, all have been integrated by one organization (the PMI). As any other practices you can follow your own path obviously. But thre is no gap Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Apr 11, 2017 4:56 PM
Replying to John Tieso
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Agreed. it is really nearly impossible to understand or evaluate requirements where no business analysis-present or desired- has not been done. Any team in a large project really needs a member with business analysis capability to keep them on the right path.
Totally agree John. Just one comment. Key is to differentiate the requirements. Product/service/result requirements are in charge of the business analyst. Project requirements are in charge of project manager. From product/service/result requirements the project manager defines the project requirements. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Apr 11, 2017 5:27 PM
Replying to Serge Aboubacar Toure
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I have always thought about that.The processes of collecting requirements and defining scope are tight to the business analysis process in the CBAP.
The requirement classification scheme in the CBAP is the same as in the PMBOK5.
Serge, what you say about requirements clasification inside the BABOK and PMBOK is right and demostrate (I lived that) that both organizations take into account each other to create their BOKs. Just one comment: are different type of requirements Product/service/result requirements are in charge of the business analyst. Project requirements are in charge of project manager. From product/service/result requirements the project manager defines the project requirements. Saving Changes...
