Morne BeeslaarManaging Director| Faolan ConsultingPretoria, South Africa
I suppose it depends on what level of elevation we are talking about. If performance leads to the position of a technical lead of a smallish team I can see some reasoning behind that with the provision that the person must at least be trained in the principles of people management before taking on this role. People management is a total different kettle of fish and I find that technically sound performers who do not have the right skill set end up doing all the work themselves, as delegation and holding others accountable for their performance as part of a team, does not come naturally to them. This leads to burnout or just a work overload impacting on family and social time leading to unhappiness.
Some stick this out and learn through experience and move on while others just quit altogether as they are not prepared enough.
Just a bit of up-skilling can put a person with the relevant skills in a position to have a good career path. A frank evaluation between the candidate and his manager might be a good starting point prior to going down this path. Saving Changes...
I had some related skills, Adrian. I managed a team of database administrators and data analysts. I had database development expertise.
That experience was less useful to me as a front-line manager than did my project management experience.
Thanks Stephane.
The idea is that while the best performing expert is not necessarily the best person for a managerial position, first-line managers must always come from the same line of work as their direct reports. This does not happen always but most of the times it does.
I heard a discussion in which a project manager that has managed android software development projects had applied for an android software development team manager position. When asked how she evaluated her C++ and Java software development skills she said that she had no software development experience. The interviewer was shocked and terminated the interview immediately.
The job also involved people management and some technical involvement from the part of the manager. These two things wouldn't have been possible without a software development background.
You can't hire a coach for a sports team if he/she hasn't played the game of the team or does not a have a deep technical understanding of the game. Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
I don't dispute that some technical background can be useful in understanding and helping your team members.
I am shocked that the interviewer was more interested in the person's coding skills than they were in their code management skills. I have acted as software development manager and my focus was in maximizing the development team and their environment. I did not have to code but I had to understand the difficulties of the selected technologies.
As an example, when I led a Siebel development team, I picked up enough knowledge about this ERP application to ensure that I understood its strengths and difficulties and then tailored our processes to mitigate the former and maximize the latter.
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1 reply by Adrian Carlogea
Aug 04, 2017 7:01 AM
Adrian Carlogea
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I don't know all the details I just heard the discussion. I am pretty sure that the interviewer was also interested in the management skills, maybe the management skills were the most important. However coding skills, while maybe not as important as management skills, were mandatory.
As far as I understood the question about coding skills came up later in the interview which makes me thinks that coding skills were not very important but nonetheless mandatory.
As a functional manager you need to interview people for vacancies. How are you going to evaluate the technical skills of your candidates if yourself don't have those skills?
As a functional manager you need to improve the technical skills of your team and also evaluate the abilities of your team members. It would be ridiculous to assume you can do these things without being able to deeply understand the work your team members are doing.
In addition higher level of management expect functional manager to be subject matter experts in their fields and take strategic decisions that require technical knowledge. For instance a functional manager may be asked which is the best technology to be used by the company for a certain type of work.
Of course functional managers could "delegate" all the managerial work that needs technical knowledge but then what value would the manager bring to the company? Such managers would only be just some sort of overpaid administrative assistants. At least this is my opinion but all the functional managers I have worked with had good technical backgrounds even if most of them were no longer hands-on.
I don't dispute that some technical background can be useful in understanding and helping your team members.
I am shocked that the interviewer was more interested in the person's coding skills than they were in their code management skills. I have acted as software development manager and my focus was in maximizing the development team and their environment. I did not have to code but I had to understand the difficulties of the selected technologies.
As an example, when I led a Siebel development team, I picked up enough knowledge about this ERP application to ensure that I understood its strengths and difficulties and then tailored our processes to mitigate the former and maximize the latter.
I don't know all the details I just heard the discussion. I am pretty sure that the interviewer was also interested in the management skills, maybe the management skills were the most important. However coding skills, while maybe not as important as management skills, were mandatory.
As far as I understood the question about coding skills came up later in the interview which makes me thinks that coding skills were not very important but nonetheless mandatory.
As a functional manager you need to interview people for vacancies. How are you going to evaluate the technical skills of your candidates if yourself don't have those skills?
As a functional manager you need to improve the technical skills of your team and also evaluate the abilities of your team members. It would be ridiculous to assume you can do these things without being able to deeply understand the work your team members are doing.
In addition higher level of management expect functional manager to be subject matter experts in their fields and take strategic decisions that require technical knowledge. For instance a functional manager may be asked which is the best technology to be used by the company for a certain type of work.
Of course functional managers could "delegate" all the managerial work that needs technical knowledge but then what value would the manager bring to the company? Such managers would only be just some sort of overpaid administrative assistants. At least this is my opinion but all the functional managers I have worked with had good technical backgrounds even if most of them were no longer hands-on. Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
I recruited many contractors and employees with technologies I did not know. My focus is always on the soft skills over the hard skills. The few times when I hired people because of their hard skills proved to be problematic.
My managers do not expect me to be technical. They know I have technical resources that can provide me the technical information I need. What they expect from me is the ability to make decisions that are good for the company.
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1 reply by Adrian Carlogea
Aug 05, 2017 12:23 AM
Adrian Carlogea
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I am not sure about your particular situation but for highly technical roles the hard skills are much more important.
Let's say you want an experienced software developer in a certain programming language and a certain technology. Let's say you have one candidate that has poor soft skills but all the hard skills needed for the job and another candidate with very good soft skills but with no experience in programming. Please don't tell me that you would hire the 2nd candidate because I would not believe you. :P The 2nd candidate would be completely useless for the project/job.
Let's make things a little bit more realistic. Let's assume the 2nd candidate (the one with good soft skills) has programming experience but not as good as the first one. Would you hire a less competent employee just because it has better soft skills? Well, I guess if you are a manager with no good technical background you wouldn't even be able to figure out who is the best developer from the two candidates. :P
If engineers and other technical experts were hired primarily for their soft skills and not for their technical knowledge then they would be no longer motivated to improve their hard skills but instead they would focus more on their soft skills. This would improve their changes for getting hired.
I truly believe the world would fall apart if we had to rely on engineers hired not for their technical knowledge but for their soft skills.
Saving Changes...
Wade HarshmanScrum Master| GDITIndianapolis, In, United States
Aug 02, 2017 12:45 PM
Replying to Adrian Carlogea
...
Hi Wade,
Usually Senior Engineers promoted to management, and by management I mean functional management, worked as Technical Leads on various projects or work activities so they have gained some management skills during their career.
There are also senior engineers that during their career have focused entirely on performing the engineering work and they have rarely been involved in technical leadership activities. These Senior Engineers usually are not promoted to management and many of them don't even want this. Some companies elevate their salaries to management level but they remain individual contributors.
A first-line manager requires both management skills but also good technical knowledge.
In conclusion a very good performer should not automatically be promoted to management unless he also posses leadership and management skills, and these skills should be demonstrated in a technical leader role.
On the other hand poor performers should never be promoted to functional management either. It is an illusion to think that you can be the people manager for a group of technical experts in a certain line of work if you are not yourself a good technical expert in that line of work.
Adrian, your last paragraph reminds me of the Dilbert Principle:
Companies tend to systematically promote their least-competent employees to positions which limit the amount of damage they can do (i.e. management). Saving Changes...
I recruited many contractors and employees with technologies I did not know. My focus is always on the soft skills over the hard skills. The few times when I hired people because of their hard skills proved to be problematic.
My managers do not expect me to be technical. They know I have technical resources that can provide me the technical information I need. What they expect from me is the ability to make decisions that are good for the company.
I am not sure about your particular situation but for highly technical roles the hard skills are much more important.
Let's say you want an experienced software developer in a certain programming language and a certain technology. Let's say you have one candidate that has poor soft skills but all the hard skills needed for the job and another candidate with very good soft skills but with no experience in programming. Please don't tell me that you would hire the 2nd candidate because I would not believe you. :P The 2nd candidate would be completely useless for the project/job.
Let's make things a little bit more realistic. Let's assume the 2nd candidate (the one with good soft skills) has programming experience but not as good as the first one. Would you hire a less competent employee just because it has better soft skills? Well, I guess if you are a manager with no good technical background you wouldn't even be able to figure out who is the best developer from the two candidates. :P
If engineers and other technical experts were hired primarily for their soft skills and not for their technical knowledge then they would be no longer motivated to improve their hard skills but instead they would focus more on their soft skills. This would improve their changes for getting hired.
I truly believe the world would fall apart if we had to rely on engineers hired not for their technical knowledge but for their soft skills.
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1 reply by Stéphane Parent
Aug 05, 2017 6:38 AM
Stéphane Parent
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When hiring, I also look for a minimum of hard skills. Given two candidates that have the minimum, I will take the one with the better soft skills.
It's funny we call them hard skills. They're not near as heard to build as the soft skills.
By definition an engineer is all about hard skills. If I want a team lead, I'll go with soft skills.
The problem is that an team or organization is only as good as their leaders.
Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Aug 05, 2017 12:23 AM
Replying to Adrian Carlogea
...
I am not sure about your particular situation but for highly technical roles the hard skills are much more important.
Let's say you want an experienced software developer in a certain programming language and a certain technology. Let's say you have one candidate that has poor soft skills but all the hard skills needed for the job and another candidate with very good soft skills but with no experience in programming. Please don't tell me that you would hire the 2nd candidate because I would not believe you. :P The 2nd candidate would be completely useless for the project/job.
Let's make things a little bit more realistic. Let's assume the 2nd candidate (the one with good soft skills) has programming experience but not as good as the first one. Would you hire a less competent employee just because it has better soft skills? Well, I guess if you are a manager with no good technical background you wouldn't even be able to figure out who is the best developer from the two candidates. :P
If engineers and other technical experts were hired primarily for their soft skills and not for their technical knowledge then they would be no longer motivated to improve their hard skills but instead they would focus more on their soft skills. This would improve their changes for getting hired.
I truly believe the world would fall apart if we had to rely on engineers hired not for their technical knowledge but for their soft skills.
When hiring, I also look for a minimum of hard skills. Given two candidates that have the minimum, I will take the one with the better soft skills.
It's funny we call them hard skills. They're not near as heard to build as the soft skills.
By definition an engineer is all about hard skills. If I want a team lead, I'll go with soft skills.
The problem is that an team or organization is only as good as their leaders.
...
1 reply by Adrian Carlogea
Aug 05, 2017 7:55 AM
Adrian Carlogea
...
No offense but I am pretty sure that most companies that have succeeded in technology don't hire engineers as you do. Most technology companies want the best technical people they can get. If they want people with soft skills then they will hire them on different positions, including project managers.
For first-line managerial positions it is true that the best performing individual contributors are not automatically considered the best candidates but people with poor or no technical background are in most cases rejected from the beginning. In the few cases in which they are not rejected from the beginning the interviewers usually have a shock when they find out that the candidate is not also a subject matter expert.
As for team lead, I presume you wanted to say project technical lead, this position is always filled by the best technical expert. If the best technical expert is not officially the technical lead then he would become de facto technical lead as all the other team members would listen to him, including the official technical lead.
Leaders are important for companies, but without very good employees with hard skills they would basically end up driving a car without an engine or one with a low performance engine that would not allow them to win the race.
When hiring, I also look for a minimum of hard skills. Given two candidates that have the minimum, I will take the one with the better soft skills.
It's funny we call them hard skills. They're not near as heard to build as the soft skills.
By definition an engineer is all about hard skills. If I want a team lead, I'll go with soft skills.
The problem is that an team or organization is only as good as their leaders.
No offense but I am pretty sure that most companies that have succeeded in technology don't hire engineers as you do. Most technology companies want the best technical people they can get. If they want people with soft skills then they will hire them on different positions, including project managers.
For first-line managerial positions it is true that the best performing individual contributors are not automatically considered the best candidates but people with poor or no technical background are in most cases rejected from the beginning. In the few cases in which they are not rejected from the beginning the interviewers usually have a shock when they find out that the candidate is not also a subject matter expert.
As for team lead, I presume you wanted to say project technical lead, this position is always filled by the best technical expert. If the best technical expert is not officially the technical lead then he would become de facto technical lead as all the other team members would listen to him, including the official technical lead.
Leaders are important for companies, but without very good employees with hard skills they would basically end up driving a car without an engine or one with a low performance engine that would not allow them to win the race.
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1 reply by Stéphane Parent
Aug 05, 2017 10:32 AM
Stéphane Parent
...
Thank you for taking time to share your perspective, Adrian.
Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Aug 05, 2017 7:55 AM
Replying to Adrian Carlogea
...
No offense but I am pretty sure that most companies that have succeeded in technology don't hire engineers as you do. Most technology companies want the best technical people they can get. If they want people with soft skills then they will hire them on different positions, including project managers.
For first-line managerial positions it is true that the best performing individual contributors are not automatically considered the best candidates but people with poor or no technical background are in most cases rejected from the beginning. In the few cases in which they are not rejected from the beginning the interviewers usually have a shock when they find out that the candidate is not also a subject matter expert.
As for team lead, I presume you wanted to say project technical lead, this position is always filled by the best technical expert. If the best technical expert is not officially the technical lead then he would become de facto technical lead as all the other team members would listen to him, including the official technical lead.
Leaders are important for companies, but without very good employees with hard skills they would basically end up driving a car without an engine or one with a low performance engine that would not allow them to win the race.
Thank you for taking time to share your perspective, Adrian. Saving Changes...
