Project Management Central

Please login or join to subscribe to this thread

Topics: Agile, Scrum
How to indicate QA task in a Sprint.
Network:45



Hi,
In my previous post (Sprint Burndown & Release Burndown Charts), i had indicated that we are working towards having QA tasks too into the Sprint (which wasn't the case, until now)..

Just to give a high level view of what the QA tasks, would look like:
1. Bug Verification
2. New Feature validation
3. Regression Testing

I was thinking of doing the following way, but i am not sure if this is the best way:
1. Bug Verification - have a separate ticket called "Bug Verification" and have QA provide the Story Points for verifying all the bugs.
2. New Feature validation - Create a sub-task under this User Story and have QA provide the story point for validating the same.
3. Regression Testing - create a "Regression Test" task and have the QA provide the Story points.

Appreciate any inputs, as we are at a very early stage of implementing this process, so it will be a good time to refine it and indicate to the team.
Sort By:
Page: 1 2 next>
Network:136



Robert -

if the teams are going to be consolidated and if there was a need to identify tasks to this level of granularity, don't size the tasks themselves but rather the overall work item reflecting all delivery activities, otherwise you'll be sliding back to traditional individual (as opposed to team) estimation and progress tracking.

Kiron
...
1 reply by Robert Poddar
Oct 06, 2017 2:51 AM
Robert Poddar
...
Hi Kiron.

You are right, that by creating individual QA task, we will "fall" back to the waterfall model / traditional model. I too wasn't sure whether this is an apt way to do it, hence my post. I am unsure by sizing "overall task". Do you mean that i just have 1 ticket for QA and size it for the whole duration that QA will need to qualify the deliverable?
Network:66721



Those sound more like QC, than QA, activities, Robert.

The beauty of agile development is that you can actually drive development from the testing and make the testing as granular as the development.

I'm worried that adding the suggested activities would jeopardize the benefits of agile development within an iteration.

Perhaps you should consider these activities outside of the sprint/iteration? Especially, in preparation of a release.
...
1 reply by Robert Poddar
Oct 06, 2017 2:53 AM
Robert Poddar
...
Hi Stephane,

Actually, the QA tasks are currently out of the Sprint scope. From a burndown chart perspective, we aren't getting a clear picture on the status of the Sprint, since QA tickets are not in the Sprint; hence i am finding the best way to bring in the QA into the Sprint and also be able to have a better Burndown Chart..
thanks
Robert
Network:1286



In Scrum, there is only the Dev Team, in addition to SM and PO, - which can be apprised of a team with the skills required to deliver the increment.

That said, one of the members may focus on testing. In this case, the definition of 'Done' would include validation of the Acceptance Tests for the items in work. If an item does not pass AT, it goes back to in-progress. If a bug is found outside of the parameter of the AT, an issue is opened and prioritized into the backlog.

That said, when I was with Siemens, testing was a significant part of the cycle with later integration testing and regression testing. In this case, the specific processes and efforts required by the organization can be integrated into the Scrum process.

Edit: I saw this post first. Now I see QA is not part of Dev Team. I think my answer still is applicable. Hope it helps.
...
1 reply by Robert Poddar
Oct 06, 2017 2:59 AM
Robert Poddar
...
Hi Andrew

Thanks for your post. For Regression / Integration testing, how did you go about with the Scrum process? Did you have a separate ticket for Regression Testing? If yes, did you further breakdown the Regression Testing ticket into multiple sub-tasks and then size them?
How will the Burndown Chart work, when there is a gap between when development has completed their implementation and when QA completes the validation of the user story?
thanks
Robert.
Network:1275



First of all, you have to take into account that the method you use will define implicit or explicit quality tasks (Scrum - while is not a method-, DSDM, XP, etc). Second, Agile is create on quality basement. Then you are always making quality assurance and quality control in implicit or explicit way. With all that say, generally speaking, you question has no sense in Agile world unless you are using a method and in that case the method explicit define the activities.It is hard to understand if you do not work inside Agile environments.
...
1 reply by Robert Poddar
Oct 06, 2017 3:02 AM
Robert Poddar
...
Hi Sergio,

Yes, we aren't working in a pure Agile environment, but in a quasi or hybrid environment. With this setup, i wanted to know how best to include the QA tasks into the Sprint, since QA is tasks are currently out of the Sprint.

thanks
Robert.
Network:45



Oct 04, 2017 8:09 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
...
Robert -

if the teams are going to be consolidated and if there was a need to identify tasks to this level of granularity, don't size the tasks themselves but rather the overall work item reflecting all delivery activities, otherwise you'll be sliding back to traditional individual (as opposed to team) estimation and progress tracking.

Kiron
Hi Kiron.

You are right, that by creating individual QA task, we will "fall" back to the waterfall model / traditional model. I too wasn't sure whether this is an apt way to do it, hence my post. I am unsure by sizing "overall task". Do you mean that i just have 1 ticket for QA and size it for the whole duration that QA will need to qualify the deliverable?
...
1 reply by Kiron Bondale
Oct 06, 2017 9:13 AM
Kiron Bondale
...
Robert -

as Stéphane indicated above, any individual role's tasks (e.g. development, design, documentation, quality) required to complete a story should be included as part of the TEAM sizing done. Story decomposition into tasks should be done only if it is needed to create any understanding of what's needed otherwise it is documentation for documentation sake.

Kiron
Network:45



Oct 04, 2017 8:33 AM
Replying to Stéphane Parent
...
Those sound more like QC, than QA, activities, Robert.

The beauty of agile development is that you can actually drive development from the testing and make the testing as granular as the development.

I'm worried that adding the suggested activities would jeopardize the benefits of agile development within an iteration.

Perhaps you should consider these activities outside of the sprint/iteration? Especially, in preparation of a release.
Hi Stephane,

Actually, the QA tasks are currently out of the Sprint scope. From a burndown chart perspective, we aren't getting a clear picture on the status of the Sprint, since QA tickets are not in the Sprint; hence i am finding the best way to bring in the QA into the Sprint and also be able to have a better Burndown Chart..
thanks
Robert
...
2 replies by Robert Poddar and Stéphane Parent
Oct 06, 2017 7:40 AM
Stéphane Parent
...
If you really want to do it right, you should build the QA (if indeed you are doing any) and QC right into each story estimates. That way QA and QC is automatically included in the sprint.
Oct 13, 2017 6:48 AM
Robert Poddar
...
Hi Stephane

Ok, will start to include the QA effort as part of the User Story..how should i handle other QA task such as regression testing, volume testing, performance testing? should i have separate tickets for each of those tickets? (or) have a single task which incorporates all these tests?

Robert.
Network:45



Oct 04, 2017 9:49 AM
Replying to Andrew Craig, PMP, PSM
...
In Scrum, there is only the Dev Team, in addition to SM and PO, - which can be apprised of a team with the skills required to deliver the increment.

That said, one of the members may focus on testing. In this case, the definition of 'Done' would include validation of the Acceptance Tests for the items in work. If an item does not pass AT, it goes back to in-progress. If a bug is found outside of the parameter of the AT, an issue is opened and prioritized into the backlog.

That said, when I was with Siemens, testing was a significant part of the cycle with later integration testing and regression testing. In this case, the specific processes and efforts required by the organization can be integrated into the Scrum process.

Edit: I saw this post first. Now I see QA is not part of Dev Team. I think my answer still is applicable. Hope it helps.
Hi Andrew

Thanks for your post. For Regression / Integration testing, how did you go about with the Scrum process? Did you have a separate ticket for Regression Testing? If yes, did you further breakdown the Regression Testing ticket into multiple sub-tasks and then size them?
How will the Burndown Chart work, when there is a gap between when development has completed their implementation and when QA completes the validation of the user story?
thanks
Robert.
Network:45



Oct 04, 2017 4:30 PM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
...
First of all, you have to take into account that the method you use will define implicit or explicit quality tasks (Scrum - while is not a method-, DSDM, XP, etc). Second, Agile is create on quality basement. Then you are always making quality assurance and quality control in implicit or explicit way. With all that say, generally speaking, you question has no sense in Agile world unless you are using a method and in that case the method explicit define the activities.It is hard to understand if you do not work inside Agile environments.
Hi Sergio,

Yes, we aren't working in a pure Agile environment, but in a quasi or hybrid environment. With this setup, i wanted to know how best to include the QA tasks into the Sprint, since QA is tasks are currently out of the Sprint.

thanks
Robert.
...
1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Oct 06, 2017 10:14 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
...
Inside the sprint you are making quality assurance and quality control activities from requirements to delivery. The point is you have to detect the tools and method you use to do that. For example, if you are using XP then you are working side by side with the person that are giving the requirements and are visualizing the results. Then, in this case, quality assurance and quality control are being performed becuase you are making verification and validation. That is one of the advantages of agile based methods and at the same time it is one of the hardest things to manage.
Network:66721



Oct 06, 2017 2:53 AM
Replying to Robert Poddar
...
Hi Stephane,

Actually, the QA tasks are currently out of the Sprint scope. From a burndown chart perspective, we aren't getting a clear picture on the status of the Sprint, since QA tickets are not in the Sprint; hence i am finding the best way to bring in the QA into the Sprint and also be able to have a better Burndown Chart..
thanks
Robert
If you really want to do it right, you should build the QA (if indeed you are doing any) and QC right into each story estimates. That way QA and QC is automatically included in the sprint.
Network:136



Oct 06, 2017 2:51 AM
Replying to Robert Poddar
...
Hi Kiron.

You are right, that by creating individual QA task, we will "fall" back to the waterfall model / traditional model. I too wasn't sure whether this is an apt way to do it, hence my post. I am unsure by sizing "overall task". Do you mean that i just have 1 ticket for QA and size it for the whole duration that QA will need to qualify the deliverable?
Robert -

as Stéphane indicated above, any individual role's tasks (e.g. development, design, documentation, quality) required to complete a story should be included as part of the TEAM sizing done. Story decomposition into tasks should be done only if it is needed to create any understanding of what's needed otherwise it is documentation for documentation sake.

Kiron
...
1 reply by Robert Poddar
Oct 13, 2017 6:50 AM
Robert Poddar
...
Hi Kiron,

Ok, will talk to the team and have the QC/QA include their efforts into the user story, which will also have the development efforts. I just posted a response to Stephan, asking how should i handle the other "regular" task such as regression testing, performance testing, volume testing etc? Should i have separate tasks for these tests (or) have a single task and size it, by incorporating all these tests.

Robert.
Page: 1 2 next>  

Please login or join to reply

Content ID:
ADVERTISEMENTS
ADVERTISEMENT

Sponsors