Are Agile and Waterfall in violent agreement? Another fairytale...
Tom ConnollyCEO| TCA Coaching and Training LtdCork, County Cork, Ireland
The people are unhappy with King Waterfall's ivory tower. They can understand Agile better, she walks among them, and listens to them, and they can see how she takes their concerns and their questions on board and alters her course accordingly. Princess Agile was born in the mountains. But King Waterfall is very perturbed because he sees Agile getting so much attention since she came into his kingdom. He is perturbed at how the people seem to love her iterations - especially as he himself has told them that there is not really such a thing as a pure waterfall. He has encouraged them to be rational, and to unify their efforts. He has told them to get out of the river if they see danger downstream, and get back in again upstream with better weapons. But they listen to her more easily. Are Agile and Waterfall in violent agreement? Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Nov 04, 2017 5:03 PM
Replying to Tom Connolly
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I love all the comments! Sergio - have I upset you? I hope not. I think it is good to compare methodologies but my view is one should not apply any methodology blindly. One should learn from them all - but to me the true skill of a PM is knowing what is appropriate for every project. Andrew - glad you have got some good info and to me that's what its all about. Mounir - revolution is always happening I think :-). Sante - very wise! But my opinion is that they are more like gin and tonic - good apart, better together. Drake - I always look at Agile as project management and Lean as process management. Kiron - maybe the only lesson we learn from history is that we never learn enough? Peter - I think to a degree we are all in nowhere-land. The longer we live the less we know I sometimes think!
Not at all. But once again you are making a mistake. Agile is not a methodology. Is a practice or discipline. Waterfall is not a methodology. Is a life cycle process based on predictive life cycle model. If we do not understand it then we fail from the beginning. Saving Changes...
haha love sergio's posts. Nice analogy Tom, gin and tonic is better. Saving Changes...
Tom ConnollyCEO| TCA Coaching and Training LtdCork, County Cork, Ireland
Nov 04, 2017 5:03 PM
Replying to Tom Connolly
...
I love all the comments! Sergio - have I upset you? I hope not. I think it is good to compare methodologies but my view is one should not apply any methodology blindly. One should learn from them all - but to me the true skill of a PM is knowing what is appropriate for every project. Andrew - glad you have got some good info and to me that's what its all about. Mounir - revolution is always happening I think :-). Sante - very wise! But my opinion is that they are more like gin and tonic - good apart, better together. Drake - I always look at Agile as project management and Lean as process management. Kiron - maybe the only lesson we learn from history is that we never learn enough? Peter - I think to a degree we are all in nowhere-land. The longer we live the less we know I sometimes think!
Thanks Sergio _ I think you know a lot more than I do about these processes, models and disciplines - however I am interested in taking the best of all of these things and using them in real life projects without getting too concerned about which school they belong to. My aim in comparing Waterfall to Agile is to show how the wisdom of the ages and the energy and iconoclasm of youth can be combined to achieve success.
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Nov 04, 2017 7:45 PM
Sergio Luis Conte
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I am using them in real life projects from 1990 up to date. And I was part of the genesis of Agile because the incidental event that I worked in one of the companies that was part of the USA DoD NSF/Agility Forum and then was part of the group of authors of DSDM where I worked with Arie Van Bennekum and others the Manifesto authors. The point is: both are not matter of comparison. The problem is most of the people outside there do not understand that and then after start initiatives they fail and you can hear things like "agile does not work", "agile is died", etc etc. At one side, companies have hired me to solve this type of things so I could think that it is a situation that helps me to have more work. But I do not think so. I think that the missunderstanding outside there jeopardizes the possibility to have more work for people that are using Agile or any other type of process.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Nov 04, 2017 6:43 PM
Replying to Tom Connolly
...
Thanks Sergio _ I think you know a lot more than I do about these processes, models and disciplines - however I am interested in taking the best of all of these things and using them in real life projects without getting too concerned about which school they belong to. My aim in comparing Waterfall to Agile is to show how the wisdom of the ages and the energy and iconoclasm of youth can be combined to achieve success.
I am using them in real life projects from 1990 up to date. And I was part of the genesis of Agile because the incidental event that I worked in one of the companies that was part of the USA DoD NSF/Agility Forum and then was part of the group of authors of DSDM where I worked with Arie Van Bennekum and others the Manifesto authors. The point is: both are not matter of comparison. The problem is most of the people outside there do not understand that and then after start initiatives they fail and you can hear things like "agile does not work", "agile is died", etc etc. At one side, companies have hired me to solve this type of things so I could think that it is a situation that helps me to have more work. But I do not think so. I think that the missunderstanding outside there jeopardizes the possibility to have more work for people that are using Agile or any other type of process. Saving Changes...
Tom ConnollyCEO| TCA Coaching and Training LtdCork, County Cork, Ireland
Hi Sergio - I think very few people understand Waterfall or Agile in full. And I don't think that matters as long as project managers implement what is best for the project at the time in order to achieve success. I don't agree that Waterfall and Agile cannot be compared but I absolutely think as I said before that you know a lot more than I do about the details of each.
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Nov 06, 2017 4:07 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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Tom, I spend my time here because I learn a lot from people comments and it helps to improve myself. Then, thank you very much for take your time to answer me. Let me say that we can compare methods based on agile practices of based on waterfall life cycle process. But Agile by itself is a practice and waterfall is a life cycle process. Inside the new PMBOK the PMI has found an "elegant" definition to include Agile as a life cycle and has included the development cycle inside the whole project life cycle.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Nov 05, 2017 7:45 PM
Replying to Tom Connolly
...
Hi Sergio - I think very few people understand Waterfall or Agile in full. And I don't think that matters as long as project managers implement what is best for the project at the time in order to achieve success. I don't agree that Waterfall and Agile cannot be compared but I absolutely think as I said before that you know a lot more than I do about the details of each.
Tom, I spend my time here because I learn a lot from people comments and it helps to improve myself. Then, thank you very much for take your time to answer me. Let me say that we can compare methods based on agile practices of based on waterfall life cycle process. But Agile by itself is a practice and waterfall is a life cycle process. Inside the new PMBOK the PMI has found an "elegant" definition to include Agile as a life cycle and has included the development cycle inside the whole project life cycle. Saving Changes...
Tom ConnollyCEO| TCA Coaching and Training LtdCork, County Cork, Ireland
Thank you Sergio. I will definitely take a look at the new PMBOK. We can all always learn! Saving Changes...
